24 thoughts on “TOTD 2018-4-29: Is this kosher?”

  1. Kobe or Tokyo? Metro Tokyo probably has nearly a hundred thousand Muslims due to embassies, people visiting for business, Indonesian laborers, etc.

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  2. ctlaw:
    Kobe or Tokyo? Metro Tokyo probably has nearly a hundred thousand Muslims due to embassies, people visiting for business, Indonesian laborers, etc.

    Kobe. How are you calculating 100,000 in Tokyo?

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  3. Getting a jump on the 2020 Olympic crowds?  Actually I just saw an article that said Japan’s tourism is way up in the last year or two. So it might not be so much for the resident population.

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  4. Pencilvania:
    Getting a jump on the 2020 Olympic crowds?  Actually I just saw an article that said Japan’s tourism is way up in the last year or two. So it might not be so much for the resident population.

    It is because of ME ME ME, right?

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  5. 10 Cents:

    ctlaw:
    Kobe or Tokyo? Metro Tokyo probably has nearly a hundred thousand Muslims due to embassies, people visiting for business, Indonesian laborers, etc.

    Kobe. How are you calculating 100,000 in Tokyo?

    Sealioning my guesstimate, Sock?

    consider 50 embassies at 100 employees and family.

    consider that every Japanese jv in a Muslim country probably has a dozen or so employees inJapan for training.

    consider illegal Indonesian laborers

    all of these are going to be Tokyo-centric

     

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  6. ctlaw:

    10 Cents:

    ctlaw:
    Kobe or Tokyo? Metro Tokyo probably has nearly a hundred thousand Muslims due to embassies, people visiting for business, Indonesian laborers, etc.

    Kobe. How are you calculating 100,000 in Tokyo?

    Sealioning my guesstimate, Sock?

    consider 50 embassies at 100 employees and family.

    consider that every Japanese jv in a Muslim country probably has a dozen or so employees inJapan for training.

    consider illegal Indonesian laborers

    all of these are going to be Tokyo-centric

     

    This seems high.

    Most immigrant communities have their own specialty shops to get the real stuff. I figure this store is just selling “Mexican” food to the “Gringos”.

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  7. In Skin in the Game, Nassim Nicholas Taleb writes about “Minority Rule”.  In the U.S., if you look at almost any beverage, you’ll see a Ⓤ symbol which is the Orthodox Union certification that the product is Kosher.  (There are other certification bodies with different criteria, but the Orthodox Union is the largest.)

    Now, the number of Jews who adhere strictly to the dietary laws is almost lost in the round-off in the sales figures of most mass-market food companies, so why comply?  Because the cost of compliance is very small, and it eliminates friction in the marketplace.  When they sell into communities which are heavily orthodox, they don’t need to maintain a separate product line for that market.

    To quote Taleb (p. 69),

    It suffices for an intransigent minority—a certain type of intransigent minority—with significant skin the game (or, better, soul in the game) to reach a minutely small level, say 3 or 4 percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences.

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  8. John Walker:
    In Skin in the Game, Nassim Nicholas Taleb writes about “Minority Rule”.  In the U.S., if you look at almost any beverage, you’ll see a Ⓤ symbol which is the Orthodox Union certification that the product is Kosher.  (There are other certification bodies with different criteria, but the Orthodox Union is the largest.)

    Now, the number of Jews who adhere strictly to the dietary laws is almost lost in the round-off in the sales figures of most mass-market food companies, so why comply?  Because the cost of compliance is very small, and it eliminates friction in the market.  When they sell into communities which are heavily orthodox, they don’t need to maintain a separate product line for that market.

    To quote Taleb,

    It suffices for an intransigent minority—a certain type of intransigent minority—with significant skin the game (or, better, soul in the game) to reach a minutely small level, say 3 or 4 percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences.

    What is interesting about those markings is that they are very discreet. Many people don’t know what the symbols mean. It is quite common to have “Pareve” on packages to show there is no meat or dairy in the product to keep dietary laws.

    Here is a chart of other kosher marks.

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  9. John Walker:
    In Skin in the Game, Nassim Nicholas Taleb writes about “Minority Rule”.  In the U.S., if you look at almost any beverage, you’ll see a Ⓤ symbol which is the Orthodox Union certification that the product is Kosher.  (There are other certification bodies with different criteria, but the Orthodox Union is the largest.)

    Now, the number of Jews who adhere strictly to the dietary laws is almost lost in the round-off in the sales figures of most mass-market food companies, so why comply?  Because the cost of compliance is very small, and it eliminates friction in the marketplace.  When they sell into communities which are heavily orthodox, they don’t need to maintain a separate product line for that market.

    To quote Taleb (p. 69),

    It suffices for an intransigent minority—a certain type of intransigent minority—with significant skin the game (or, better, soul in the game) to reach a minutely small level, say 3 or 4 percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences.

    That example from Taleb’s Skin In The Game was the first thing that came to my mind, too.  That’s my first Taleb book, and I’m far from finished reading it.  But while this particular example makes sense, Taleb also states, with no uncertain terms, that the intransigent minority — in this case persons with allergies — explains why it’s allegedly so hard to find airlines that provide peanuts in flight.  Except I do my share of flying, routinely am offered peanuts by the attendants, and can only remember one time an announcement was made to the effect that peanuts would not be offered owing to the presence of a sensitive passenger.  Taleb’s certainty in this instance makes me wonder what else he’s wrong about or is oversimplifying.

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  10. Last century when I lived in Japan, a group of us American gaijin threw a Thanksgiving Day party for about 50 folks, foreigners and Japanese. The pies and potatoes we could take care of through hard work and the market, but the traditional birds were another matter. Our friend is the Master of a fine eating and drinking establishment in our town and used to work as a butcher. He was the man to speak with.

    He obtained for us two turkeys slaughtered as per Islamic rite. So even in 1992 halal meat was available in Japan.

    But I certainly never saw it advertised.

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  11. MamaToad:
    Last century when I lived in Japan, a group of us American gaijin threw a Thanksgiving Day party for about 50 folks, foreigners and Japanese. The pies and potatoes we could take care of through hard work and the market, but the traditional birds were another matter. Our friend is the Master of a fine eating and drinking establishment in our town and used to work as a butcher. He was the man to speak with.

    He obtained for us two turkeys slaughtered as per Islamic rite. So even in 1992 halal meat was available in Japan.

    But I certainly never saw it advertised.

    Costco arrived in this century so Butterballs are available.

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  12. John Walker:
    In Skin in the Game, Nassim Nicholas Taleb writes about “Minority Rule”.  In the U.S., if you look at almost any beverage, you’ll see a Ⓤ symbol which is the Orthodox Union certification that the product is Kosher.  (There are other certification bodies with different criteria, but the Orthodox Union is the largest.)

    Now, the number of Jews who adhere strictly to the dietary laws is almost lost in the round-off in the sales figures of most mass-market food companies, so why comply?  Because the cost of compliance is very small, and it eliminates friction in the marketplace.  When they sell into communities which are heavily orthodox, they don’t need to maintain a separate product line for that market.

    To quote Taleb (p. 69),

    It suffices for an intransigent minority—a certain type of intransigent minority—with significant skin the game (or, better, soul in the game) to reach a minutely small level, say 3 or 4 percent of the total population, for the entire population to have to submit to their preferences.

     

    What is the level of compliance of which you speak? It’s a big difference for someone who is already in compliance to state they are vs. somebody making a change. AFAIK, no restaurant chain or meatpacker is even encouraged to go Kosher.

    You really have to ask yourself the nature of the people involved. Although Judaism is formally a religion, a significant attribute is that it does not seek to convert or dominate. The peanut allergy religion is different. 

    Islam is worse because not only does Islam seek to convert and dominate, it has non-Islamic abettors who fetishize their support for Islam as a way to seek grace relative to other non-Muslims (the peanut allergy cult must have been full at the time). 

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  13. ctlaw:
    What is the level of compliance of which you speak? It’s a big difference for someone who is already in compliance to state they are vs. somebody making a change.

    According to Taleb (p. 72):

    Second, the cost structure matters quite a bit.  It happens in our first example that making lemonade compliant with kosher laws doesn’t change the price by much—it is a matter of avoiding some standard additives.

    But then he goes on to note that almost 70% of the lamb imported to the U.K. from New Zealand is halal.  Producers in New Zealand and stores in Britain find it less expensive and more efficient to sell mostly halal lamb as opposed to maintaining two parallel product lines with separate inventory and display in stores.  And this happens with a practicing Muslim population less than 4%,  Perhaps one of the reasons there’s halal meat in Japan is simply that the producers follow the same logic and produce halal for other markets.

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  14. John Walker:

    ctlaw:
    What is the level of compliance of which you speak? It’s a big difference for someone who is already in compliance to state they are vs. somebody making a change.

    According to Taleb (p. 72):

    Second, the cost structure matters quite a bit.  It happens in our first example that making lemonade compliant with kosher laws doesn’t change the price by much—it is a matter of avoiding some standard additives.

    But then he goes on to note that almost 70% of the lamb imported to the U.K. from New Zealand is halal.  Producers in New Zealand and stores in Britain find it less expensive and more efficient to sell mostly halal lamb as opposed to maintaining two parallel product lines with separate inventory and display in stores.  And this happens with a practicing Muslim population less than 4%,  Perhaps one of the reasons there’s halal meat in Japan is simply that the producers follow the same logic and produce halal for other markets.

    I didn’t check what the products were. I think it is a fad. It reminds me of “No Caffeine” on products that never had any caffeine. It is a way to sell products.

    I wonder how much these extra labels really mean. Organic, Kosher, Halal, Fair Trade, Free Range, You’ll Believe Anything, Good Housekeeping, etc.

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  15. 10 Cents:
    I didn’t check what the products were. I think it is a fad. It reminds me of “No Caffeine” on products that never had any caffeine. It is a way to sell products.
    I wonder how much these extra labels really mean. Organic, Kosher, Halal, Fair Trade, Free Range, You’ll Believe Anything, Good Housekeeping, etc.

    Gluten-free pencils.

    No animals were harmed in the writing of this comment.

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  16. ctlaw:

    10 Cents:
    I didn’t check what the products were. I think it is a fad. It reminds me of “No Caffeine” on products that never had any caffeine. It is a way to sell products.
    I wonder how much these extra labels really mean. Organic, Kosher, Halal, Fair Trade, Free Range, You’ll Believe Anything, Good Housekeeping, etc.

    Gluten-free pencils.

    No animals were harmed in the writing of this comment.

    No Fat Water.

    Oat Bran Prunes.

    Turkey Filet Mignon.

    20% More Packaging Free

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  17. I remember buying a little box of mushrooms  25 year ago with a heart sticker on it that said “Cholesterol Free!” as though most mushrooms have cholesterol…

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  18. MamaToad:
    I remember buying a little box of mushrooms  25 year ago with a heart sticker on it that said “Cholesterol Free!” as though most mushrooms have cholesterol…

    Poor you. Someday maybe you will be able to afford the good kind.

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  19. There was a story in Western Canada a couple of years ago when a large restaurant chain started buying halal beef from an American rancher instead of from Canadians.

    Here’s another story from the same media company today about a slaughterhouse in Prince Edward Island in Canada, with a less than 2% Muslim population, that has gone halal.

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  20. MamaToad:
    I remember buying a little box of mushrooms  25 year ago with a heart sticker on it that said “Cholesterol Free!” as though most mushrooms have cholesterol…

    I know you’re the busiest person on the planet but would love for you to write one of your no nonsense, hell-raising posts.

    Miss you!

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  21. As my old pastor Father James Flattery used to say, “Flattery will get you everywhere!”

    I’ll see what I can come up with E…

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  22. MamaToad:
    As my old pastor Father James Flattery used to say, “Flattery will get you everywhere!”

    I’ll see what I can come up with E…

    Aw c’mon… You know I don’t do “flattery.” I get in enormous amounts of trouble for engaging in exactly the opposite. :))

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