Does this sorry excuse of a Pope even read the Bible?

Francis tweeted this garbage today:

Joseph and Mary weren’t refugees. They were subjects of the Roman Empire obeying the Emperor’s decree that all imperial territories were to have a census, and that all peoples ruled by Rome were to return to their hometowns for that census.

Joseph and Mary were, in fact, obeying their rulers.

Mainstream Christianity has become as pozzed as any other institution conquered by the Left. And that’s why it’s dying.

13+
avataravataravataravataravataravataravataravataravataravataravataravataravatar

28 thoughts on “Does this sorry excuse of a Pope even read the Bible?”

  1. Douglas:
    Mainstream Christianity has become as pozzed as any other institution conquered by the Left. And that’s why it’s dying.

    Too true. All the institutions are pozzed. The way out is unclear.

    4+
    avataravataravataravatar
  2. ?pozzed?

    I would like some report from the Pope on how those migrant families are doing, the ones taken in by the Vatican a couple years ago. If they have been placed elsewhere then it’s time for the Vatican to take in a few dozen more.

    2+
    avataravatar
  3. Pencilvania:
    ?pozzed?

    It’s a bastardized form of “HIV Positive”, pozzed being shorthand for “infected by the Left’s ridiculous revolutionary demands”. It took off on Ze Interwebs as shortand for anytime a normal institution has been Borg’d into a CultMarx NPC factory. Gay men would use “Poz” as shorthand for infection status in personal ads and on Grindr. Andrew Sullivan started using the term to describe his own status, and the Internet took it from there.

    Example: When your local Catholic school sends your kid home with a notice that from now on transsexuals can use any bathroom they want because Jesus loves little girls with a penis too, your school has been pozzed.

    Other forms: The Poz. Ex., “My church married two men today. Guess it got the Poz”.

    7+
    avataravataravataravataravataravataravatar
  4. Douglas:
    Mainstream Christianity has become as pozzed as any other institution conquered by the Left. And that’s why it’s dying.

    Don’t include the Presbyterians at all with this statement!

    Our churches operate as separate entities and if the Presbytery screws up (as it recently did with an Israeli/Palestinian issue), we just cut off the tithing and make our own decisions as to where and how we spend donations. We fire pastors/ministers if we don’t like them and don’t wait around for Archbishops to cover up scandals.

    My late father was an influential deacon in our local church and he got things done- cemeteries expanded and upgraded and best of all, he changed the direction of all tithings: in the true nature of the Protestant work ethic, his very wealthy church spent nearly 100%  of its donations for college scholarships for local students who had to stand before the congregation and explain why they were the most deserving. My dad was personally responsible for sending over 1oo outstanding students to Vanderbilt, Duke, some Ivies, and University of Florida.

    This is what happens when one doesn’t have a heavy “government” like the Vatican overseeing its flock. Granted, the Jesuits ran some awesome schools for the poor (ask Justice Thomas) but what have they done lately?

    4+
    avataravataravataravatar
  5. drlorentz:
    Too true. All the institutions are pozzed. The way out is unclear

    I think the independent Bible churches may lead the way out. Unlike many of the established denominations they don’t have a top heavy hierarchy that’s been converged.

    And in the specifiic case of the Catholics, so many people who mistake the buildings and fine clothing for the church.

    My mom used to do missionary work in Mexico, and it was heartening to see the many people turning away from the corrupt practices of the Catholic Church there and forming independent churches .

    Even if some of them aren’t the most sound biblical scholars, they’re getting the essentials (fundamentals, haha) more right than wrong.

    3+
    avataravataravatar
  6. Maybe the pope was thinking of the flight to Egypt?

    I never thought of this before but: the entire OT is about migration, you can’t deny that!  Adam and Eve are exiled from the garden.  Noah and his family float off on the ark. Abraham is commnaded to pack up and leave for a new land.  Jacob wanders around trying to avoid Laban and Esau. Joseph is sold into slavery and then brings his whole family into Egypt to escape famine.   The Hebrews flee Egypt and wander around for 40 years. The Hebrews enter into Canaan. The Hebrews are carried off to Babylon.  The Hebrews return from exile.

    But they don’t expect the inhabitants of their destination territory to welcome them or give them “refuge”.   They are sold or delivered by God into slavery for some purpose of His own. Or, they are promised that they will be conquerors, and drive out or exterminate the natives. God isn’t concerned with non-Hebrew humans.  He doesn’t ask or expect the Hebrews to be missionaries, and He certainly doesn’t want them to show any mercy to the people they are making war on to take over the territory.  He commands them to kill every last man, woman, child, and animal, and He Himself kills, or orders the Hebrews to execute, anyone who disobeys that order.

    No, you really don’t get believers throwing themselves on the charity of their fellow humans, depending on receiving “refuge”, until the  NT, when Jesus sends the disciples out as mendicant preachers.  But they aren’t really “migrants”, they’re doing their thing within the Roman Empire.

    3+
    avataravataravatar
  7. Apparently it is not historically true that “In those days there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed”.   But what always gets to me, when you attend a service where people read this passage, is the way the reader invariably looks up solemnly and accusatorily at the congregation on the words, “because there was no room for them at the inn”.    I reckon this is because it foreshadows Jesus’ “foxes have holes” lament later on?   It’s a mild rebuke, compared to what we get at Easter, when the wretched  faithful hafta  yell, “Give us  Barabbas!” and  “CRUCIFY HIM!!”

    I’ve got no brief for this or any Pope, but I think what he tweeted is pretty much a mainstream Christian trope.

    0

  8. Hypatia:
    Maybe the pope was thinking of the flight to Egypt?

    Even then it doesn’t work. Egypt was ruled by Rome. That’s analogous to leaving for Texas because you’re wanted in Georgia.

    The whole thing about “Jesus wants open borders” is trash. It’s not even remotely true. Both OT and NT are filled with passages describing Godly people keeping others out of their nation or town.

    Therefore he said unto Judah, Let us build these cities, and make about them walls, and towers, gates, and bars, while the land is yet before us; because we have sought the Lord our God, we have sought him, and he hath given us rest on every side. So they built and prospered. – 2nd Chronicles 14:7

    We have GOT to start challenging this kind of nonsense head-on, In Your Face if we have to. The central point is the gospel is not a suicide pact. There is NO command, anywhere in the Bible, from the Father, Son, or anyone else, to let your people be swamped and drowned out by outsiders. There is zero guidance in the Bible about HOW many people to let into your country. “Welcome the stranger” IS NOT welcome the stranger’s whole country in so he can make it HIS.

    Once again, this is Alinsky stuff: take our own morals and use them to destroy us. DON’T. BITE.

    7+
    avataravataravataravataravataravataravatar
  9. Douglas:

    Hypatia:
    Maybe the pope was thinking of the flight to Egypt?

    Even then it doesn’t work. Egypt was ruled by Rome. That’s analogous to leaving for Texas because you’re wanted in Georgia.

    The whole thing about “Jesus wants open borders” is trash. It’s not even remotely true. Both OT and NT are filled with passages describing Godly people keeping others out of their nation or town.

    Therefore he said unto Judah, Let us build these cities, and make about them walls, and towers, gates, and bars, while the land is yet before us; because we have sought the Lord our God, we have sought him, and he hath given us rest on every side. So they built and prospered. – 2nd Chronicles 14:7

    We have GOT to start challenging this kind of nonsense head-on, In Your Face if we have to. The central point is the gospel is not a suicide pact. There is NO command, anywhere in the Bible, from the Father, Son, or anyone else, to let your people be swamped and drowned out by outsiders. There is zero guidance in the Bible about HOW many people to let into your country. “Welcome the stranger” IS NOT welcome the stranger’s whole country in so he can make it HIS.

    Once again, this is Alinsky stuff: take our own morals and use them to destroy us. DON’T. BITE.

    Yes, I agree.  I was making the same point you are: there are no “refugees”   in the Bible.    There are victorious usurpers, or losers who are enslaved or more often exterminated.

    But I still stick by what I said in my second comment: the pope’s tweet (hey, what’s the Latin for “tweet”?) isn’t outta line with the church’s standard practice of casting the faithful in the rôle of the innkeeper who had no vacancy–and BLAMING them for it!!  Or at least, implicitly inviting them to rejoice,” Lord I thank Thee that I am not as that man!”

    It is a perversion of the ancient idea, common to religions which developed in any dangerous or inhospitable clime ( I reckon that would be just about everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere),  that hospitality is a sacred duty,  a trust, violation of which the gods will avenge.  When you invite  a guest  over your threshold and he eats your bread, you are duty-bound to keep him safe.  It’s reflected  in the doctrine of “innkeepers’ liability” at common law.

    But, as I think you’re pointing out, it has nothing to do with international relations nor national borders, nor immigrants.  It is a practical principle governing individual households.

    0

  10. I went to the Northern Island of Japan once and there was “no room at the inn”.  My travel agent (me) had not made reservations because surely there would  be room. If I had been into playing a victim I would have seen this as blatant racism. “They are turning me away because they hate Socks.”

    7+
    avataravataravataravataravataravataravatar
  11. I still think what RushBabe said still counts. “Liberal X is always Liberal first and X second.” This goes for many religious and political groups. Ex. Liberal Christian.

    5+
    avataravataravataravataravatar
  12. 10 Cents:
    I still think what RushBabe said still counts. “Liberal X is always Liberal first and X second.” This goes for many religious and political groups. Ex. Liberal Christian.

    #YGDR

    0

  13. Hypatia:
    Apparently it is not historically true that “In those days there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed”.

    The Holy Family’s trip to Bethlehem has not yet been corroborated by archaeological or historical evidence.

    That is a far cry from “it is not historically true.”

    There are several theories about that census.   I saw that Quirinius had served for a while as Interim Administrator, and then, after the new Governor moved on, won the job outright, so the idea that ‘Quirinius did not become Governor until years later’ does not “prove” any error on the part of Luke’s account.

    There are several theories about the census itself.   I am interested in one put forward by Ernest L. Martin (who, though he was a quack in some regards, developed some interesting theories that have put historians to work for decades).   E.L. Martin was looking for a loyalty oath requirement that would only have applied to places like Judea that had their own king, and would not have applied generally to other provinces of the Empire that had Roman governors.   This was at about the time of Caesar Augustus’s silver anniversary, so perhaps he is on to something.

    3+
    avataravataravatar
  14. From a Teacher in Sunday School (my parents have the best teachers, I need to change classes)

    “The Journey- Walking the Road to
    Bethlehem”

     

    Chapter 4: From Nazareth to Bethlehem

    December 16, 2018

     

    Mary and
    Joseph

    1.     So far, we
    have studied three chapters in our book “The Journey-Walking the Road to
    Bethlehem” by Adam Hamilton. Let me recap them briefly and add a few tidbits.

    2.     Our first
    lesson was on Mary of Nazareth led by Janet Peeler.

     

    a.     Mary’s home
    town was Nazareth, which was a very small town of 100 to 400 people.

    b.     Mary was
    probably 12 or 13 years old. Young girls of that time married soon after their
    first period.

    c.      The angel,
    Gabriel, appeared to Mary and told her that she had found favor with God!

    d.     Adam
    Hamilton says that the angel probably looked more like a human in appearance
    than a creature with wings.

    e.     Gabriel told
    her that she was to bear a son fathered by the Holy Spirit.  She was to name him Jesus. He was the
    Messiah.

    f.       Mary was a
    virgin as was prophesied in Is. 7:14:

    14.
    “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin
    will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

    g.     That Mary
    was a virgin was echoed by early Church fathers such as Ignatius in 100 AD,
    Aristides in 125, Justin Martyr in 150, and Tertullian in 200.

     

    h.     Mary said: “I
    am the Lord’s servant, and I am willing to do whatever he wants. May everything
    you said come true.”

    i.       The angel
    also told Mary that her aunt Elizabeth was to have a child.

    j.       As soon as
    Mary learned from Gabriel that Elizabeth was pregnant, she immediately went to
    see her at Ein Karem just a few miles from Jerusalem.  This was a nine day journey.

    3.     Joseph:

    a.     Tom Browning
    taught our lesson on Jesus’ earthly Father, Joseph. 

    b.     The Bible
    says Mary was betrothed to Joseph.  Once
    betrothed, they were essentially married.

    c.      Their
    marriage could have been an “arranged marriage.”

    d.     After
    becoming pregnant, Mary had to tell Joseph that she was pregnant.

    e.     There are
    two schools of thought about where Joseph lived and worked before Mary and he
    were married. 


    i.
    Adam Hamilton believes that Joseph lived and worked in
    Bethlehem. 

    This view is echoed in the Apocryphal New Testament in
    the book called “The Gospel of the Birth of Mary.”


    ii.
    Other authors, like Marjorie Holmes in “Two from
    Galilee,” tell the story as if Joseph lived and worked in Nazareth. 

    f.       At some time,
    either at Ein Karem (Elizabeth’s house) or Nazareth, Mary told Joseph the story
    about the angel Gabriel appearing to her and being impregnated by the Holy
    Spirit.

    g.     Joseph must
    not have believed her. Because, from Joseph’s actions, it is obvious that he
    believed Mary had been unfaithful. 

    h.     Joseph
    decided to quietly divorce Mary.  Otherwise
    she could have been stoned.

    i.       We can only
    conjecture what the pain was like for both Joseph and Mary when Mary told him
    she was pregnant.

    j.       God appeared
    to Joseph in a dream.  In the dream, the
    messenger said to take Mary as his wife. The child she carries is from the Holy
    Spirit.

    k.     Joseph
    immediately took Mary as his wife.   They
    made their home in Nazareth.

    l.       There are also
    two schools of thought on Joseph’s age.
    One says he was an old man, and the second says he was young to middle
    age.


    i.
    Catholics portray Joseph as an elderly man


    ii.
    Protestants portray Joseph as a young man.

    1+
    avatar
  15. We have a word limit?

    Their Parents and Neighbors

    1.     Either
    before she left for Elizabeth’s home or after she returned home, Mary had to
    tell her parents she was pregnant.

    2.     How do you
    think Mary’s parents received the news when she told them she was pregnant by
    the Holy Spirit?

    a.     Do you think
    they believed her?  Would you have believed
    her?

    b.     Do you think
    they blamed Joseph?  Sort of hard to do
    if Joseph was in Bethlehem.  Not so hard,
    if he lived in Nazareth.

    3.     It was not
    unheard of in that day that an engaged couple was found to be pregnant.

    4.     It is
    surmised that Mary was about 5 months pregnant when she and Joseph were
    married.

    Other Written Sources

    1.     There is
    very little information in the Bible concerning Mary’s early life, Joseph’s
    life, and Mary’s Parent’s lives.

    2.     Several
    early works from around 150 to 400 A.D. tried to fill in the missing
    information. They are:

    a.     The “History
    of Joseph the Carpenter”

    b.     The “Gospel
    of the Birth of Mary” (Apocrypha)

    c.      The
    “Prototevangelion” also called the “Gospel of James” (Apocrypha)

    3.     However, Christians
    in the early church did not totally accept these works as authentic.  Most works not accepted into our Bible are
    published in what is known as the Apocrypha.

    4.     Nothing is
    said about Mary’s parents in the Bible.
    None-the-less, down through history her parents were given the names of
    Anna and Joachim, which comes from the Apocrypha.

    5.     These books
    also say Mary was viewed as a special child who was given to the priests to
    serve in the Temple at Jerusalem and was dedicated to God.

    6.     Since Mary was
    holy, the Apocryphal books say that she was married by the priests to an
    elderly man (Joseph) who was a widower and already had children.

    7.     These old
    stories indicate that at the time of Jesus’ birth, Joseph was 90 years old and
    lived until he was 111.  Sort of hard to
    believe since, the life expectancy of men at that time was only 35 years.

    8.     On the other
    hand, Joseph could have been a young man with or without previous children.  We just don’t know. 

    9.     Many
    Catholics and other Christian groups believe in the perpetual virginity of
    Mary which asserts that Mary was “always a virgin, before, during, and
    after the birth of Jesus Christ.” 

    10.Catholics believe
    that Mary had no marital relations after Jesus’ birth nor gave birth to any
    children other than Jesus. Joseph being old lends credence to this belief.  

    11.John Wesley also
    held this belief.

    After the Wedding

    1.     In the first
    century, newlyweds generally moved in with the husband’s parents until they
    could get a place of their own.

    2.     If Joseph’s
    parents were in Bethlehem, then they traditionally should have gone to live
    with them in Bethlehem. 

    3.     However, if
    Joseph was an old man, his parents would have been long dead.

    4.     Mary and
    Joseph, we know from Luke, stayed in Nazareth after they were married.  Perhaps this was because she was five months
    pregnant and the trip would have placed a great strain on her to travel for 10
    days to Bethlehem.  Which as we know she
    had to do anyway.

    5.     Living in
    Nazareth, Mary would also be close to her Mother and a midwife she knew.

    6.     If Joseph’s
    parents lived in Nazareth, then they would have stayed with them, and Joseph
    would have started building them a home.

    7.     Most likely,
    Joseph would have expanded an existing cave for their new home.

    8.     Since Mary
    and Joseph stayed in Nazareth until time for the baby to come, it would
    indicate that Mary was not acquainted with the prophecy that the Messiah would
    be born in Bethlehem.

    Journey
    from Nazareth to Bethlehem

    1.     Let’s now
    turn to the Journey of Mary and Joseph from Nazareth to Bethlehem. 

    2.     A
    description of this journey is found in Luke 2:1-7:

    1.  Now in those days a decree went out from
    Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.

     2.  This
    was the first census taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

     3.  And
    everyone was on his way to register for the census, each to his own city.

     4.
    Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea,
    to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the
    house and family of David,

     5.  In
    order to register along with Mary, who was engaged to him, and was with child.

     6.
    While they were there, the days were completed for her to give birth.

     7.  And she gave birth to her firstborn son; and
    she wrapped Him in cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room
    for them in the inn.

    The Census

    1.     In the ninth
    month of Mary’s pregnancy, Roman soldiers arrived in Nazareth announcing a
    census for tax purposes. 

    2.     They wanted
    everyone to return to the husband’s hometown to be counted. 

    3.     The Roman
    census was conducted every 14 years.
    This census was most likely done in 7 B.C.

    4.     Joseph for
    certain had to go to Bethlehem for the census.

    5.     There are
    several opinions on whether or not Mary had to go with Joseph to Bethlehem:

    a.     Opinion 1–Adam
    Hamilton says that Mary, as Joseph’s wife, was required to go with Joseph to
    Bethlehem. She had no choice, but to go with him.

    b.     Opinion 2—Mary
    wanted to go because she was certain the baby would be born while he was
    gone.  She wanted to be with the only
    person she could count on, Joseph.

    c.      Opinion
    3—Mary told Joseph she was going, period.
    She felt the need to have the baby in Bethlehem. She may not have known
    about the prophecy that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, but no doubt
    the Holy Spirit was leading her to go to Bethlehem. 

    6.     In any event,
    this was not how she had dreamed about having her first baby. Her baby was to
    be born far away from her families help!

    7.     She knew it
    would be a difficult journey to Bethlehem.
    Remember she was 9 months pregnant!

    8.     Today, Mary
    is usually pictured riding on a donkey on her journey to Bethlehem.  This comes from Protevangelion 12:3 in the
    Apocrypha .

    9.     Some say
    that donkeys were not used for long distance travel.  They mostly were used to carry packs and
    loads.  There is a good possibility that
    Mary may have walked the entire way.

    10.Do you think
    Mary questioned God about what he was doing?
    Would you have?  I think she somehow
    knew her destiny and said “Let’s go!”

    11.How many
    times have you wondered out loud when you are in trouble, “God why are you
    letting this happen to me?”

    The Journey

    1.     There were
    several routes Joseph could have used to get them from Nazareth to
    Bethlehem.  Joseph had to decide which route
    to take.

    2.     First, there
    was the long route which caused them to go east and cross the Jordan River,
    proceed south along the Jordan River, and cross back over the Jordan River and
    proceed west to Bethlehem.  Page 82 of
    “The Journey.”

    3.     The short
    and most direct route was the way of the Old Testament Patriarchs that went
    through Samaria. 

    4.     The short
    route took ten days.  It was two days
    shorter than the long route.  This is the
    route Adam Hamilton believes the Holy Family took.

    5.     You will
    recall that the Samaritans were half breeds.
    The Jews in the Northern Kingdom intermarried with the Assyrians.  Orthodox Jews would have nothing to do with
    them. 

    6.     The land of
    Samaria was to be avoided.  Therefore,
    most Galilean Jews used the long route.

    7.     Jesus did
    not see the Samaritans as unclean.
    Perhaps Jesus’ attitude toward Samaritans had been passed on to him by
    Joseph.

    8.     Are there people
    in Marietta that we seek to avoid?  Name
    some. Homeless, addicts, poor, those of different color from us, LBGTQ persons…

    9.     As they left
    Nazareth, they would have traveled with others for safety. They would have
    stopped at wells along the way to refresh and to spend the night.

    10.One such
    well was probably Jacob’s Well in Sychar.
    It was at this well, thirty years later, that Mary’s son, Jesus, would
    offer the Samaritan woman living water.

    11.The last
    three days before getting to Bethlehem were the hardest on travelers, since
    they were in hill country.

    12.What a
    relief it must have been on the ninth day when they topped the last hill and
    saw the gleaming city of Jerusalem.  One
    more day and they would be in Bethlehem.

    13.Bethlehem
    was a little town six miles to the south of Jerusalem that had 500 to a 1000
    people.

    14.Earlier,
    Bethlehem had been called Ephrath.

    15.The name
    Bethlehem means “The House of Bread.”
    Bethlehem stood in a fertile countryside, which made its name a fitting
    name.

    16.Bethlehem
    stood high up on a grey limestone ridge more than two thousand five hundred
    feet in elevation. The ridge had a summit at each end, and a hollow like a
    saddle between them.

    17.Bethlehem
    was special to the Jews.  It was known as
    the city of David. 

    18.Bethlehem
    was David’s hometown and where he was crowned king of Israel.

    Messiah Will Be from the House of King David                                      1.     David was
    also special to the Jews.  It is from the
    line of David that the Messiah was to come. 
    Is. 9:6-7

    6.  For to us a
    child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his
    shoulder, and his name will be called “Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

     7.  Of the increase of his government and of
    peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to
    establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this
    time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.

     

    2.     Jesus was
    absolutely unique in the fulfillment of the prophecy of his heritage.  See above figure.

    a.     He was of
    the royal line of David through Solomon (David’s son) to Joseph.

    b.     He was of
    the legal line of David through Nathan (David’s son) to Mary.

    c.      Both lines
    came together in Jesus.

    d.     He was also
    fully the heir to Joseph; because under Jewish law an adopted son was just as
    real an heir as a naturally born son.

    e.     The Bible
    says Jesus must be of the house of David, but it also says he cannot be a
    direct blood descendent of Solomon (Story of King Jeconiah, Jer. 22:30).

    f.       He was still
    fully of the line of David through Mary, and fully God through the Holy Spirit. 

    g.     In Jeremiah
    22: 24-30, God said no seed of Jechoniah (Coniah) would sit on the throne.  See Matt. 1: 11-12

    h.     The Messiah
    would from the seed of Woman (not seed of man!) Gen. 3:15

    15. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and
    between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise
    his heel.” 

    i.       How is it
    possible then for Jesus to be King?

    j.       Throne
    passed to Jesus by adoption.

    k.     When Joseph
    adopted him, Jesus became the heir to David.

    l.       God combined
    and eliminated any doubt of Jesus right to the throne.

    Messiah Will Be Born in Bethlehem

    1.     It was in
    Bethlehem that the Messiah was prophesied to be born. Micah 5:2:

    2.  O Bethlehem
    Ephrathah, you are but a small Judean village, yet you will be the birthplace
    of my King who is alive from everlasting ages past!

    2.     Many Jews
    knew about the prophecy that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.

    3.     You will
    recall that when the Wise Men visited King Herod in Matthew 1:1-6 and asked
    where the Messiah was to be born, Herod asked the Jewish religious
    leaders.  They replied:

    1.  Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem, in
    Judea, during the reign of King Herod.At about that time some astrologers from
    eastern lands arrived in Jerusalem, asking,

     2.
    “Where is the newborn King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in
    far-off eastern lands, and have come to worship him.”

     3.  King
    Herod was deeply disturbed by their question, and all Jerusalem was filled with
    rumors.

     4.  He
    called a meeting of the Jewish religious leaders.“Did the prophets tell us
    where the Messiah would be born?” he asked.

     5.
    “Yes, in Bethlehem,” they said, “for this is what the prophet Micah
    wrote:

     6.  `O little town of Bethlehem, you are not just
    an unimportant Judean village, for a Governor shall rise from you to rule my
    people Israel.”’

    No Room in the Inn

    1.     At last Mary
    and Joseph arrive in Bethlehem.

    2.     We read:

    Luke 2:7  And
    she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and
    laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. (KJV)

    3.     Traditionally
    we are brought up with the story in Luke saying they could not find room for
    lodging in an inn.  A stable was offered
    to them which could have been a cave.
    And there the baby Jesus was born.

    4.     The word
    translated as inn is Kataluma.  This word
    can also be translated as guest chamber.

    Luke 2:7  and
    she brought forth her son – the first-born, and wrapped him up, and laid him
    down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the
    guest-chamber. (Young’s Bible)

    5.     Adam
    Hamilton believes they went to the house of Joseph’s relatives rather than to an
    inn.

    6.     A layout of
    a typical Palestinian home is shown below.

    7.     Most
    Palestinian homes had a living space, which included a kitchen and a sleeping
    space for the family.  It also included a
    separate stable for the livestock. 

    8.     Sometimes
    there was a guest chamber where the children slept and where guests slept when
    visiting.  It would usually accommodate
    six sleeping mats. 

    9.     Often the
    houses incorporated a cave built into the soft limestone rock.

    10.The area for
    the animals in the living space was usually a few feet lower than the living
    space.  They were kept in the house for
    warmth and for safekeeping.

    11.Adam
    Hamilton believes the passage is saying “There were so many relatives in the
    city for the census that there was no room in the guest room of Joseph’s family
    for Mary and Joseph.

    12.The problem
    with accommodating Mary was everyone else in the guest room would have to be
    kicked out.

    13.Mary giving
    birth would have made anyone that touched her or her bed become ritually
    unclean.  It was not practical to accommodate
    Mary in the guest chamber.

    14.Joseph’s
    family with limited resources could have set up a birthing room in the stable
    portion of their living space. 

    15.This would
    have given them privacy and kept everyone in the house from becoming ritually
    unclean.

    16.One can read
    into the scripture that several days may have elapsed before Jesus was born.

    17.So, Jesus was
    born in the space usually occupied by the animals.

    18.The child
    was cleaned, wrapped, and laid in a feeding trough that was cut out of the
    rock.

    19.Again do you
    think Mary questioned God?  Is the birth
    of your Son supposed to be like this?

    20.The long
    awaited Messiah’s birth came in the midst of messiness, disappointment, and
    pain.

    21.That there
    was no room in the inn or family living space was symbolic of what was to
    happen to Jesus.

    a.     The only
    place where there was room for him was on a cross.

    b.     He sought an
    entry to the over-crowded hearts of men.
    He could not find it; and still his search–and his rejection–go on.

    0

  16. EThompson:

    Douglas:
    Mainstream Christianity has become as pozzed as any other institution conquered by the Left. And that’s why it’s dying.

    Don’t include the Presbyterians at all with this statement!

    Well, there are Presbyterians and then there are Presbyterians.   The PCUSA is following in the Episcopal path towards Leftist oblivion.

    Cumberland Presbyterian is a mixed bag.   There are both conservatives and liberals there, but my sense is that the liberals have bigger numbers.   Also, many Cumberland Presbyterians seem to me to be Presbyterian Lite; more like liberal Evangelical independent churches than like their Presbyterian forebears.

    The PCA has become the rallying point for conservative Presbyterians.

    0

  17. Regarding “no room in the inn,” if every Jew who was descended from David was supposed to show up to enroll at Bethlehem, they would have filled Bethlehem several times over, and probably filled all Jerusalem.   Probably just as Jerusalem filled with the usual Hanukkah crowds.

    1+
    avatar
  18. 3.e.     There are

    two schools of thought about where Joseph lived and worked before Mary and hewere married. 

    i.Adam Hamilton believes that Joseph lived and worked inBethlehem. 

    This view is echoed in the Apocryphal New Testament inthe book called “The Gospel of the Birth of Mary.”

    ii.Other authors, like Marjorie Holmes in “Two fromGalilee,” tell the story as if Joseph lived and worked in Nazareth. 

    Orthodox Christianity is in agreement with Marjorie Holmes on this point.   Why on earth would Adam Hamilton prefer the spurious “Gospel of the Birth of Mary” to Luke, chapter 2 ?

    And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed,[b] who was with child. 

    2+
    avataravatar
  19. 4.1.     There is very little information in the Bible concerning Mary’s early life, Joseph’s life, and Mary’s Parent’s lives.

    2.     Several early works from around 150 to 400 A.D. tried to fill in the missing information. They are:

    a.     The “History of Joseph the Carpenter”

    b.     The “Gospel of the Birth of Mary” (Apocrypha)

    c.      The “Prototevangelion” also called the “Gospel of James” (Apocrypha)

    3.     However, Christians in the early church did not totally accept these works as authentic.  Most works not accepted into our Bible arepublished in what is known as the Apocrypha.

    4.     Nothing is said about Mary’s parents in the Bible.None-the-less, down through history her parents were given the names ofAnna and Joachim, which comes from the Apocrypha.

    5.     These books also say Mary was viewed as a special child who was given to the priests to serve in the Temple at Jerusalem and was dedicated to God.

    6.     Since Mary was holy, the Apocryphal books say that she was married by the priests to an elderly man (Joseph) who was a widower and already had children.

    7.     These old stories indicate that at the time of Jesus’ birth, Joseph was 90 years old and lived until he was 111.  Sort of hard to believe since, the life expectancy of men at that time was only 35 years.

    8.     On the other hand, Joseph could have been a young man with or without previous children.  We just don’t know. 

    9.     Many Catholics and other Christian groups believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary which asserts that Mary was “always a virgin, before, during, and after the birth of Jesus Christ.” 

    10.Catholics believe that Mary had no marital relations after Jesus’ birth nor gave birth to any children other than Jesus. Joseph being old lends credence to this belief.  

    Here we have a doctrinal issue that divides Protestants from Catholics.   The traditions about Mary may or may not have been transmitted through those later works.   It is hard to tell, since some really fantastical and far-fetched tales are included therein, along with things that contradict parts of the Bible.  I have no trouble believing that Joseph was an older man with kids when he was betrothed to Mary.   

    The problem is the teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is wrapped up with a Catholic teaching that Mary herself was conceived sinless and lived sinless.   This is why some Protestants push back against the teaching that Joseph was old.   Protestants view the Catholic teaching on sinless Mary, Immaculate Conception, etc., to be all originated in a defective doctrine of the Incarnation of Jesus.

    1+
    avatar
  20. MJBubba:

    4.1.     There is very little information in the Bible concerning Mary’s early life, Joseph’s life, and Mary’s Parent’s lives.

    2.     Several early works from around 150 to 400 A.D. tried to fill in the missing information. They are:

    a.     The “History of Joseph the Carpenter”

    b.     The “Gospel of the Birth of Mary” (Apocrypha)

    c.      The “Prototevangelion” also called the “Gospel of James” (Apocrypha)

    3.     However, Christians in the early church did not totally accept these works as authentic.  Most works not accepted into our Bible arepublished in what is known as the Apocrypha.

    4.     Nothing is said about Mary’s parents in the Bible.None-the-less, down through history her parents were given the names ofAnna and Joachim, which comes from the Apocrypha.

    5.     These books also say Mary was viewed as a special child who was given to the priests to serve in the Temple at Jerusalem and was dedicated to God.

    6.     Since Mary was holy, the Apocryphal books say that she was married by the priests to an elderly man (Joseph) who was a widower and already had children.

    7.     These old stories indicate that at the time of Jesus’ birth, Joseph was 90 years old and lived until he was 111.  Sort of hard to believe since, the life expectancy of men at that time was only 35 years.

    8.     On the other hand, Joseph could have been a young man with or without previous children.  We just don’t know. 

    9.     Many Catholics and other Christian groups believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary which asserts that Mary was “always a virgin, before, during, and after the birth of Jesus Christ.” 

    10.Catholics believe that Mary had no marital relations after Jesus’ birth nor gave birth to any children other than Jesus. Joseph being old lends credence to this belief.  

    Here we have a doctrinal issue that divides Protestants from Catholics.   The traditions about Mary may or may not have been transmitted through those later works.   It is hard to tell, since some really fantastical and far-fetched tales are included therein, along with things that contradict parts of the Bible.  I have no trouble believing that Joseph was an older man with kids when he was betrothed to Mary.   

    The problem is the teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is wrapped up with a Catholic teaching that Mary herself was conceived sinless and lived sinless.   This is why some Protestants push back against the teaching that Joseph was old.   Protestants view the Catholic teaching on sinless Mary, Immaculate Conception, etc., to be all originated in a defective doctrine of the Incarnation of Jesus.

    I have always found the idea that having sex with your husband is a “sin”. Too much veneration of a mortal.

    0

Leave a Reply