Notre Dame and Islam

The silent question, which will cease to be silent in 3, 2, 1… is:

Did the Muslims burn Notre Dame?

First, is it a reasonable question to ask in the absence of credible evidence to date?

Second, what evidence exists?

The second question breaks down into two pieces; historic, trend or indicator evidence, and of course evidence specific to the case at hand. A historical trend is insufficient to condemn in the current sense, but it is not meaningless either.  And Islamists have both threatened and attacked Notre Dame before; and Paris in general is a target:

On 6 June 2017, at around 16:00 CET, French police shot a man who attacked a police officer with a hammer outside Notre Dame cathedral.
On 4 September 2016, a car containing seven canisters of gas and pages with Arabic writing was found parked near Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris.
Nov 13, 2015 – Paris attacks of 2015, coordinated terrorist attacks that took place in Paris on the evening of November 13, 2015. At least 130 people were killed and more than 350 were injured.
At least 12 people have been shot dead in Paris – 2 of them police officers – after masked men stormed the offices of a French magazine. 10 others have been wounded – several critically – at the offices of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical weekly which has printed cartoons deriding the prophet mohammed.
Nov 2, 2011 – The offices of French satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo have been destroyed by a petrol bomb, a day after it named the Prophet Mohammed as its “editor-in-chief”

There are many more.  So this, as the best evidence to date, means that the answer to the first question is an emphatic YES.

1) YES, it is reasonable to ask if Muslims burned notre Dame for their religion.

A significant portion of Islam is actively at war with the West, and Notre Dame is a leading symbol of the West. We find ourselves in a parallel to a pre-Crusades situation, where an expanding, conquering Islam is claiming vast swathes of territory through a combination of continuous public agitation, massive migration, specific and credible threats, a terrorizing background noise of constant, random, low-level violence, and the spectacular application of targeted destruction of Western symbols.

It would be unreasonable *not* to ask.

2) Standing by.

There are, of course, powerful prospective explanations for an accidental origin.  There was ongoing work.  The place is reported to be full of candles and torches, flammable furnishings, and as we have seen, flammable structure.

So it would also be unreasonable to insist that we know the answer.

Cue the immediate condemnation of any who would introduce the question of Notre Dame being just one more attack in the war.  Those who issue this condemnation refuse to publicly admit the war in which we find ourselves, and will never be convinced.  They break down neatly into the stupid, the merely dishonest, and the actively deceptive.

We have the right to ask relevant and reasonable questrions.  Frankly, we retain the right to ask any damned question we like, but in this, we are on solid ground.

And so I ask:  Did the Muslims burn Notre Dame?

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25 thoughts on “Notre Dame and Islam”

  1. Haakon Dahl:
    And so I ask:  Did the Muslims burn Notre Dame?

    We don’t know.  Perhaps the question is to ask is whether there will be a serious enquête as to what happened and, if so, whether what is discovered will ever see the light of day.  For example, it may be that the proximate cause of the fire was some error or negligence committed by part of the renovation crew.  But who was on that crew, and whence did they hail?  Will we learn the first names of the crew found responsible?

    As we slouch ever deeper into idiocracy, incompetence is probably the way to bet, but if it’s enemy action I doubt the ruling class have the courage to make the evidence public.

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  2. I think the term Muslim is over broad. I do think there is a good chance that Islamists had a hand in it though. They have tried in the past so it would not surprise me.

    I think there will be a concerted effort to make this fire an accident unless there is overwhelming proof because that is the approved narrative.

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  3. Trinity Waters:

    10 Cents:
    I think the term Muslim is over broad.

    You and many other polite thinking people over the last 1,300 years…just saying, not accusing.

    I am not trying to be polite but precise. When you are talking about that many people it helps to narrow things down.

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  4. 10 Cents:

    Trinity Waters:

    10 Cents:
    I think the term Muslim is over broad.

    You and many other polite thinking people over the last 1,300 years…just saying, not accusing.

    I am not trying to be polite but precise. When you are talking about that many people it helps to narrow things down.

    That is a difficult thing to do. Let’s use the Nazis as an example:

    Some believed in merely German nationalism.

    Many believed in the necessity of exterminating Jews.

    And Catholics.

    Some believed that all non-Germans were expendable. Hitler had great romances with two of the (English) Mitford sisters but claimed he would never marry any woman who wasn’t German.

    If you choose to follow beneath the banner, be prepared for all of the accusations.

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  5. EThompson:

    10 Cents:

    Trinity Waters:

    10 Cents:
    I think the term Muslim is over broad.

    You and many other polite thinking people over the last 1,300 years…just saying, not accusing.

    I am not trying to be polite but precise. When you are talking about that many people it helps to narrow things down.

    That is a difficult thing to do. Let’s use the Nazis as an example:

    Some believed in merely German nationalism.

    Many believed in the necessity of exterminating Jews.

    And Catholics.

    Some believed that all non-Germans were expendable. Hitler had great romances with two of the (English) Mitford sisters but claimed he would never marry any woman who wasn’t German.

    If you choose to follow beneath the banner, be prepared for all of the accusations.

    Nazis were a subgroup of Germans and Europeans so it is a poor example. A closer example would be to write a post called “Death Camps and Europeans”. Technically true but it does not say much.

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  6. 10 Cents:
    Nazis were a subgroup of Germans

    It certainly was not. Don’t forget the aiders and abettors and the appeasers. Same difference.

    P.S. I’ll even add Neville Chamberlain to the group particularly as he fought ardently against Churchill who knew better.

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  7. G.D.:
    The second question is:

    When jihadists claim responsibility for the deed.

    They do and quite jubilantly. See: ISIS pics.

    But this is what truly chaps my hide: The majority of Muslims refuse to speak out against the killing and although they claim they would not engage in terrorism, they do approve of it.

    Not to mention the new Muslim Congresswoman from MN who didn’t waste one moment in office before she chastised Israel.

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  8. EThompson:

    G.D.:
    The second question is:

    When jihadists claim responsibility for the deed.

    They do and quite jubilantly. See: ISIS pics.

    But this is what truly chaps my hide: The majority of Muslims refuse to speak out against the killing and although they claim they would not engage in terrorism, they do approve of it.

    Not to mention the new Muslim Congresswoman from MN who didn’t waste one moment in office before she chastised Israel.

    When I was but a tot, mommy told me that silence is consent.  After graduating from tot school, I learned about sins of omission, etc.  I stand by my original comment without accusing anybody here of misusing language.

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  9. Trinity Waters:
    When I was but a tot, mommy told me that silence is consent.

    My mommy spent 2 years in Germany post WWII teaching military offspring in Frankfurt; thus had a great opportunity to travel Europe extensively. She is a proper and reserved southern belle but went ballistic on the mayor of Krakow as he was leading a tour through Auschwitz and claimed that the citizens were ignorant of the camp in the late 30s and early 40s.

    To quote her:

    “That was the first and the last time I used the term bull**** in public. “

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  10. If they   had done it, wouldnt they have  been in the streets  ekebtating already?

    Brcause it IS true that there were celebrations in the mosques in NYC on 9/11.  Yes there effing were—while the rest of us were still wondering what had happened.  (And no you can’t find a link; those incidents have be3n sanitized out of the official history.)

    in one way, it would be easier if this does  turn out to be terrorism.  It’s too awful to think it was sparked by some worker’s cigarette.  And would have gone nowhere if only the Heavens had bestowed a little rain…

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  11. It’s too early to know the cause of the fire but that hasn’t stopped the thought police from shutting down the discussion, on Fox News no less.

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  12. drlorentz:
    It’s too early to know the cause of the fire but that hasn’t stopped the thought police from shutting down the discussion, on Fox News no less.

    “Not on my watch.”  So there’s a psychology behind phrases like this.  He feels a specific duty.  To me the most reasonable explanation is that the word has already gone out at the network what Will and Will Not Be Discussed.  And I can see a reasonable justification for that.  But it didn’t seem that Karsenty was exactly throwing bombs or raving and drooling.  Well, who needs open discourse?  Not Fox viewers, apparently.

    Maybe Shep is like this all the time.  I don’t know — I stopped watching a long time ago.  Can anybody recall such a prim and proper refusal to allow a topic with the polarity reversed?  For example, has Shep spoken to Ilhan Omar, Keith Ellison, the Talib woman, or any of their cohort and simply not allowed them to raise points because “we all know where it’s going?”

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  13. Mike LaRoche:

    Haakon Dahl:And so I ask:  Did the Muslims burn Notre Dame?

    Is the pope Catholic?

    I don’t even particularly think that they did.  It is certainly possible, but there’s no evidence of that in this particular case.  Yet.

    I just want to be on the record as asserting the right to ask the question.  And so I ask.  Rights not exercised are forfeit.

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  14. 10 Cents:
    Nazis were a subgroup of Germans and Europeans so it is a poor example. A closer example would be to write a post called “Death Camps and Europeans”. Technically true but it does not say much.

    I appreciate your point fo view, and I disagree only lightly, but I do disagree.

    Europeans would include of course Poles, French, Czech, Belgians, etc.  None of those people would become the ruling class if the Allies fell to the Nazis.  Their bread is buttered on the opposite side.

    Meanwhile, when Hitler orders Paris burned, his military refuses.  Islam sets fire to Paris every night and twice on Sunday.  The French are stupid, stupid, stupid, in calling this plague down upon their heads, but a plague it is just the same.

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  15. drlorentz:
    It’s too early to know the cause of the fire but that hasn’t stopped the thought police from shutting down the discussion, on Fox News no less.

    Thanks for the clip.  No one knows at this point. It being an accident is just as much a speculation as anything else.

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  16. A leftist friend told me this story. His wife was working as an adjunct prof at DePaul on 911. A few days later a Muslim female student told her that half of her fellow Muslim students celebrated 911 by exchanging candies. His wife contacted the Chicago Tribune and told them about it. The reporter said they had received many such stories. They would print it only if she went on the record. She declined and they didn’t print it. Negative news about Islam is actively suppressed by the MSM.

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  17. Hypatia:
    If they   had done it, wouldnt they have  been in the streets  ekebtating already?

    Perhaps in the “no-go zones” or “banlieus” directly outside Paris where even the police are afraid to go let along journalists!

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  18. Richard Easton:
    A few days later a Muslim female student told her that half of her fellow Muslim students celebrated 911 by exchanging candies.

    Why bring this up at all if you’re reluctant to go on record? She’s an aider and abettor and just as guilty. Sounds like a taunt to me.

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