Spiritual Question 2

Does God exist ?

Possible answers:

  1. Yes
  2. No
  3. Maybe
  4. Lots of gods exist; which one do you mean?
  5. I am God.
  6. We are all gods.
  7. Some of us will become gods.

We are still a long ways from my conception of God. I am simply probing about the other potential replies. Did I miss any options?

There are lots of people who would answer “yes” to Spiritual Question 1 (is there such a thing as a spiritual aspect to human existence?), but would answer “no” to this question.

I think Buddhists would answer “no,” possibly with qualifications. Jedis would give a similar answer. So would many New-Agers.

Agnostics and lots of New-Agers and “seekers” would answer “maybe.”

Pagans would give answer # 4, though some Neo-Pagans might answer #6, or even perhaps # 7. Mormons would be likely to answer both # 1 and # 7.

Theists and Deists answer “yes.” Is there anyone who would answer “yes” who could not be described as a Theist or a Deist?

What do y’all say ?

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127 thoughts on “Spiritual Question 2”

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  1. 10 Cents:
    I am so thankful that we can have discussions on religion. It is great when people can share their beliefs. It gets heated but that’s when it gets fun. (For some people.)

    A cosmogony, a religion, certain ritual  practices , are unique to and universal to human societies.  That is what makes them all of interest ( even to people who have conclusively chosen one as Truth.)

    why?  If you ask me (and yeah I know: you didn’t, but I’ll tell you anyway!) we need look no farther than the fact that humans have. a long period of infant dependency.  We are physically helpless as babies, and then, when we become mobile, we still don’t  hav the mental development to protect ourselves.  If you weren’t the kind of kid who was inclined to trust the adults in your tribe, revere them, faer  them, and obey their commands, you probably wouldn’t have lived  to breed.  Youda fallen into the fire, run off a cliff, drowned in a river, well before puberty.    That’s why the drive to worship is hard-wired into us, and it is extremely powerful.

    And before you call me an atheist, let me say I’m not precluding the possibility that a Creator God set it up this way, precisely so that we would yearn, all our lives, to seek  and worship a Heavenly Father.

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  2. MJBubba:

    Haakon Dahl:

    MJBubba:
    Haakon, you spoke up for “maybe.”   Don’t you think that if there is a car there is probably a carmaker ?

    In the case of cars, yes.  In the case of glaciers, no.

    How about in the case of a living cell ?

    What sort of evidence would persuade you that the Carmaker is real?

    No matter what evidence is required, religion responds “Well, God doesn’t work that way.”  This is a pointless line of inquiry.

    But I am not asking for your religious response.   I am asking about your irreligious response.

    And, if I tell you that God works some other way than you imagine, will you listen?

    How about witness testimony? How many witnesses does it take in order for you to accept any witness testimony at all?

    How many witnesses to Trump’s misdeeds will convince you?

    […snip…]

    Now let us get past the diversion/distraction of President Trump’s activities, though the characterization of some of his activities as “sin” is a topic I will want to return to.

    How about witnesses of spiritual activity?   How about witnesses to miracles?   How many witnesses does it take to establish that there is such a thing as a spiritual aspect to human existence?   How many witnesses would be suitable to establish that God exists?

    I thought it was clear that you and I disagree on a level which will not be resolved by trading claims.  I feel that you are not correct, but I’m not going to hector you with repeated demands to honor my minor and tangential questions.  This is what I feel that you are doing to me.  Now I give full credit for a generosity of spirit motivating your actions, BUT that doesn’t make it one whit less annoying.  You stated that you find it annoying for supposed Christians to cite non-Christian sources.  Well, I find it equally annoying for supposedly rational people to cite non-rational sources.  Especially when those non-rational artifacts (this is my holy book — I insist that you take its every word seriously; this person says he saw a miracle — I insist that you treat him as a credible witness) are used to prop up an otherwise supposedly rational construct; a logical argument.

    You asked for my irreligious response: I reject sorcery.

    I have a much longer answer half-prepped, which will instead likely be incorporated into another post.

    I jumped into this thread after you had , in my opinion, misrepresented Liz’ point in order to score an easy-layup against your strawman. Liz didn’t say that the Almighty “has no interest in what happens to His creatures or how it turns out.” She said that the Lord “has remained removed from our actions and expects us to carry the load henceforth.” You then asked Liz to defend not her claim but your re-interpretation of it, despite the fact that she had already provided her own justification for what she said (not what you say she meant): “This just makes sense to me so my answer is yes [God does indeed exist].

    Not satisfied with mere Deism, you require that she come all the way about to your manner of belief in the Judeo-Christian God, which was good enough for several of the founders, but which does not happen to be your view.

    The point I hoped to gently make with my comment about the car’s opinion of the car-maker was that: the Lord in Liz’ view may operate like the programmer of a magnificent piece of software, or the creator of the Ford Mustang, both of whom are intimately, intensely interested in their creations, and how those creations turn out.  It may be, to a Deist, that we are the very focus and purpose of the Lord’s activities, but that this does *not* imply an obligation on the part of the Creator to muddle about in our every doing.  It may be that he keenly takes notes, planning our much-improved replacements.  Or that, if the Almighty for some reason does indeed require much in the way of Hosannas, that he is either satisfied or not — and we won’t know until the next flood.

    I leave you with two quotes on the involvement of the Almighty in our affairs:

    Luke, of Biblical fame:

    Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

    Giordan Bruno, burned alive by Biblical literalists:

    Jove has ordained that today, at noon, two melons, among the others found in Franzino’s melon patch, be fully ripened, but that they not be picked until three days later, at which time they will not be considered fit for eating. He wishes that, at the same time, thirty jujubes, perfectly ripe, be picked form the jujube tree which stands at the foot of Mount Cicala on the property of Gioan Bruno; thirty of them should be picked perfectly ripe, seventeen should fall to the ground unripe, and fifteen should be worm-eaten.

    He decreed that Vasta, the wife of Albenzio, while she tries to curl the hair on her temples, shall burn fifty-seven of them because she overheated her iron, but that she will not burn her head, that she will not swear this time upon smelling the stench, but rather bear it with patience.

    He decreed that two hundred fifty-two maggots be born out of the dung of Albenzio’s ox; that of these, fourteen be trampled upon and killed by Albenzio’s foot; that twenty-six of them die from being turned upside down; that twenty-two live in a cavern; that eighty wander about the courtyard; that forty-two go to live under the tree stump near the door; that sixteen turn their feelers wherever they see fit; and that the rest go in search of their fortune….

    He decreed that at fifteen minutes of the same hour, the old woman of Fiurulo, by the motion of her tongue moving about in her palate, will succeed with the fourth movement in causing the third molar in her right lower jaw to fall out. Its loss will be bloodless and painless, because the said molar has come to the end of its state of trepidation that has lasted exactly seventeen annual revolutions of the moon.

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