Getting the Vapors

I was wondering what the Ratizens thought about vaping. As far as we know it is a lesser of two evils but we don’t know for sure. In twenty or thirty years we will see the problems or lack of problems by this habit.

Are you a vapor? (A person who vapes.)

Should vaping be proactively restricted till we know more?

Can it be restricted because it is too ubiquitous?

Should people be given pearls to clutch if they want to get the vapors?

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78 thoughts on “Getting the Vapors”

  1. Damocles:

    EThompson:
    And because the most important person in my life -my husband- has banned me from this site because and I quote him, “You’re wasting your time on these idiots” I bid you adieu.

    We’ll see how long this lasts.

    If she comes back I’ll claim it’s because she can’t get enough of me!

    None of us can, Damocles. You are the only reason people want to come to this site. 🙂

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  2. I’ve missed the fun: insults followed by a rage-quit. Don’t care for the insults but love the rage-quit.

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  3. 10 Cents:

    EThompson:

    10 Cents:
    How about people who have health problems that lead to being overweight? Are there no exceptions? Some medicines have bad side effects.

    That goes without saying but let us be frank: the majority of people who are overweight are personally responsible for that and, in fact, create some of those medical conditions themselves. (See: diabetes.)

    I agree but some don’t. I just don’t like shooting the wounded.

    Hard cases make bad law.

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  4. Devereaux:
    Another major reason is poverty. Protein is expensive; carbs are not.

    Exercise and restraint are still free.  Within a certain ceteris paribus box, your view holds, but the fact remains that every human (to a reasonable degree of accuracy here) can control his weight, again, to a reasonable degree of accuracy.  It’s a matter of priorities.

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  5. Okay, I confess that I re-animated this thread because I saw the punchline while searching for other things, but Man, I did Nazi that coming!

    That was great!  I especially liked tha part where Dime was all “You’re pushing a rope” and Liz was all “SCREEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!” and then Dime was all [insert almost any Eminem lyric here].

    Man, that was great.

    Who’s next?

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  6. PhCheese:

    10 Cents:

    PhCheese:

    10 Cents:

    PhCheese:
    It’s bad enough just breathing air nowadays.

    Is this crack about Socks, PhCheese? When it comes to stink I got nothing on certain cheeses.

    If the socks are Gouda enough for you they are Gouda enough for me.

    I am in a brine on how to respond to this, PhCheese.

    No whey.

    You guys crack me up. 😂

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  7. 10 Cents:

    Damocles:

    EThompson:
    And because the most important person in my life -my husband- has banned me from this site because and I quote him, “You’re wasting your time on these idiots” I bid you adieu.

    We’ll see how long this lasts.

    If she comes back I’ll claim it’s because she can’t get enough of me!

    None of us can, Damocles. You are the only reason people want to come to this site. 🙂

    Such is my burden, but you can rest assured I will always do my best to fulfill the responsibilities of my assigned role in life!

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  8. Haakon Dahl:

    Devereaux:
    Another major reason is poverty. Protein is expensive; carbs are not.

    Exercise and restraint are still free.  Within a certain ceteris paribus box, your view holds, but the fact remains that every human (to a reasonable degree of accuracy here) can control his weight, again, to a reasonable degree of accuracy.  It’s a matter of priorities.

    Ha! That’s easy to say but in reality not so easy to do. Exercise particularly is difficult for the overweight, especially those most in need of it. Loss of weight often includes loss of muscle so one becomes somewhat weak and needs serious exercise just to stay up with basic life activity.

    Like many other addictions, food has a peculiar demand side that those not suffering from overeating don’t understand. That response is too simplistic.

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  9. Devereaux:

    Haakon Dahl:

    Devereaux:
    Another major reason is poverty. Protein is expensive; carbs are not.

    Exercise and restraint are still free.  Within a certain ceteris paribus box, your view holds, but the fact remains that every human (to a reasonable degree of accuracy here) can control his weight, again, to a reasonable degree of accuracy.  It’s a matter of priorities.

    Ha! That’s easy to say but in reality not so easy to do. Exercise particularly is difficult for the overweight, especially those most in need of it. Loss of weight often includes loss of muscle so one becomes somewhat weak and needs serious exercise just to stay up with basic life activity.

    Like many other addictions, food has a peculiar demand side that those not suffering from overeating don’t understand. That response is too simplistic.

    From my own example, I find it is hard to imagine eating small portions. Even when I have thought less would be better, I end up eating an often instinctual amount. If I don’t have the wisdom to have that amount in good things I will eat things that will make me fat. I have recently been on a fasting then a low carb and very low sugar diet. It has worked for me.

    I understand Devereaux is a professional and know he has dealt with these things over years. He has tried to help people and knows that some behaviors are not easily choose-able due to learned behavior and psychological dependence.

    Another example is of a friend that lost weight then went through a tough time in life. Even though he knew he was eating poorly again, he wanted the comfort of certain foods. It felt “good” to get familiar carbs and sugars.

    I know this is off topic and probably needs another thread to give the topic justice. One book summed things well for me. Weight loss is 95% food and 5% exercise. For me it is not what I eat as much as what I don’t eat and when I eat or don’t eat.

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  10. Does anyone know if there is an addictive index? It would show how strong the addiction is to some things. Some addictions are truly hard to shake for some people. There is a bitter sweet relationship. They want to stop but also get a buzz from doing the thing. There is almost a magnetic type force that is hard to pull away from. No strings attached but terribly hard to break.

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  11. 10 Cents:

    Devereaux:

    Haakon Dahl:

    Devereaux:
    Another major reason is poverty. Protein is expensive; carbs are not.

    Exercise and restraint are still free.  Within a certain ceteris paribus box, your view holds, but the fact remains that every human (to a reasonable degree of accuracy here) can control his weight, again, to a reasonable degree of accuracy.  It’s a matter of priorities.

    Ha! That’s easy to say but in reality not so easy to do. Exercise particularly is difficult for the overweight, especially those most in need of it. Loss of weight often includes loss of muscle so one becomes somewhat weak and needs serious exercise just to stay up with basic life activity.

    Like many other addictions, food has a peculiar demand side that those not suffering from overeating don’t understand. That response is too simplistic.

    From my own example, I find it is hard to imagine eating small portions. Even when I have thought less would be better, I end up eating an often instinctual amount. If I don’t have the wisdom to have that amount in good things I will eat things that will make me fat. I have recently been on a fasting then a low carb and very low sugar diet. It has worked for me.

    I understand Devereaux is a professional and know he has dealt with these things over years. He has tried to help people and knows that some behaviors are not easily choose-able due to learned behavior and psychological dependence.

    Another example is of a friend that lost weight then went through a tough time in life. Even though he knew he was eating poorly again, he wanted the comfort of certain foods. It felt “good” to get familiar carbs and sugars.

    I know this is off topic and probably needs another thread to give the topic justice. The one book summed things well for me. Weight loss is 95% food and 5% exercise. For me it is not what I eat as much as what I don’t eat and when I eat or don’t eat.

    And what you crave from time to time. Few crave steak or fish, even if that’s the best for you. I have been avoiding carbs by drinking protein shakes – Premier Protein, at COSTCO by the case.

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  12. 10 Cents:
    Does anyone know if there is an addictive index?

    What do you mean by an addictive index?  This could mean at least two different things: the extent to which a given substance is addictive to a broad population and the degree to which an individual is prone to addiction.  These are very different things, and they seem to vary based upon the individual.  There appears to be a genetic predilection toward addiction in general, but I don’t know how that varies across different addictive substances.

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  13. Also when it comes to eating people are going against big money that is being paid to sell products that are unhealthy. Commercials and billboards are there to get people to “not eat the broccoli”.  They know how to influence behavior.

    As I was growing up, Slurpees and Big Gulps were a part of life. They marketed those well to get into a convenience store. Once you were in that store, there was a wide selection of junk food.

    What Devereaux didn’t mention is, bad food is also quick food. It is prepared and easy to eat. Good food can take more money and more time. When people are hungry they often pick the fast option.

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  14. John Walker:

    10 Cents:
    Does anyone know if there is an addictive index?

    What do you mean by an addictive index?  This could mean at least two different things: the extent to which a given substance is addictive to a broad population and the degree to which an individual is prone to addiction.  These are very different things, and they seem to vary based upon the individual.  There appears to be a genetic predilection toward addiction in general, but I don’t know how that varies across different addictive substances.

    Hereditary would play a factor. Some groups would be more likely to be connected to certain things. For some it might be more than part of a groups culture.

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  15. 10 Cents:
    Also when it comes to eating people are going against big money that is being paid to sell products that are unhealthy. Commercials and billboards are there to get people to “not eat the broccoli”.  They know how to influence behavior.

    As I was growing up, Slurpees and Big Gulps were a part of life. They marketed those well to get into a convenience store. Once you were in that store, there was a wide selection of junk food.

    What Devereaux didn’t mention is, bad food is also quick food. It is prepared and easy to eat. Good food can take more money and more time. When people are hungry they often pick the fast option.

    By the nature of my job I eat out a lot. I note that food generally has a LOT of salt. Much of that is because salt makes food taste better, and no restaurant owner would want you not to come back because the food didn’t taste great. So salt is used, probably to excess.

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  16. 10 Cents:

    John Walker:

    10 Cents:
    Does anyone know if there is an addictive index?

    What do you mean by an addictive index?  This could mean at least two different things: the extent to which a given substance is addictive to a broad population and the degree to which an individual is prone to addiction.  These are very different things, and they seem to vary based upon the individual.  There appears to be a genetic predilection toward addiction in general, but I don’t know how that varies across different addictive substances.

    Hereditary would play a factor. Some groups would be more likely to be connected to certain things. For some it might be more than part of a groups culture.

    Heredity has a large part in addiction. It does not seem so much to be found in particular tribes (the native American and alcohol may be the exception) but by individual heredity. Take alcohol (with the above exception). It is clear that drunkenness is inherited; if you have an alcoholic parent your odds of becoming an alcoholic are much greater. I am sure there are other addictions that are similar. Just as bulimia is a heritable trait, so are other mental issues, and addiction is basically a mental issue. With few exceptions, people don’t want to be fat.

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  17. ET

    “That goes without saying but let us be frank: the majority of people who are overweight are personally responsible for that and, in fact, create some of those medical conditions themselves. (See: diabetes.)”

    I should have responded to this when I had the chance and ET was still here. There are medical conditions that people cannot change easily or ever. Diabetes is not brought upon yourself by choice, nor is Celiac disease. Both of these conditions are usually discovered in early childhood after an attack and the child damn near dies. It takes a strong willed child to stay on a strict and restrictive diet. Especially when grandma or auntie tells them “well, one cookie won’t hurt them or one piece of candy. When in reality that cookie or candy can trigger an attack and kill them. A very close friend lost his 7 year old grandson 3 years ago when some dumb-ass gave the child an ice cream cone with peanut butter in it, not realizing the child was allergic to peanuts, or if they knew probably thought the little dab of peanut flavoring wouldn’t hurt the child. Another close friend with diabetes and IQ of 70, often forgets to check her blood and sugar levels. “Don’t judge, least ye be judged.”

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  18. KayofMT:
    ET

    “That goes without saying but let us be frank: the majority of people who are overweight are personally responsible for that and, in fact, create some of those medical conditions themselves. (See: diabetes.)”

    I should have responded to this when I had the chance and ET was still here. There are medical conditions that people cannot change easily or ever. Diabetes is not brought upon yourself by choice, nor is Celiac disease. Both of these conditions are usually discovered in early childhood after an attack and the child damn near dies. It takes a strong willed child to stay on a strict and restrictive diet. Especially when grandma or auntie tells them “well, one cookie won’t hurt them or one piece of candy. When in reality that cookie or candy can trigger an attack and kill them. A very close friend lost his 7 year old grandson 3 years ago when some dumb-ass gave the child an ice cream cone with peanut butter in it, not realizing the child was allergic to peanuts, or if they knew probably thought the little dab of peanut flavoring wouldn’t hurt the child. Another close friend with diabetes and IQ of 70, often forgets to check her blood and sugar levels. “Don’t judge, least ye be judged.”

    My understanding is that there are two types of diabetes. Type 1 can occur in childhood and has to do with the bodies inability to produce enough insulin. Type 2 is becoming common in countries and areas where it was not seen before. This type is cause by a diet of too much sugar in the bloodstream over years.

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  19. 10 Cents:
    My understanding is that there are two types of diabetes. Type 1 can occur in childhood and has to do with the body’s inability to produce enough insulin. Type 2 is becoming common in countries and areas where it was not seen before.

    To greatly oversimplify, Type 1 diabetes is a disease, usually appearing in childhood, which is believed to have genetic and environmental causes and results in the destruction of the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas due to an autoimmune response.  Type 1 diabetics cannot produce insulin and require administration of insulin in order to survive.  There is no known cure for Type 1 diabetes.

    Type 2 diabetes generally appears in adulthood and is basically caused by the pancreas wearing out due to a diet rich in carbohydrates which results in insulin resistance, causing an increased demand for insulin production in the pancreas, which eventually leads to failure of the pancreas to produce adequate insulin, resulting in diabetes.  Type 2 diabetes can be prevented and, in its early stages, reversed by adopting a diet which is low in carbohydrates.

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  20. I wonder if there is a vaping crisis in other countries or is it just mainly an American problem. I have not heard of Japan having an issue with it.

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  21. 10 Cents:
    I wonder if there is a vaping crisis in other countries or is it just mainly an American problem. I have not heard of Japan having an issue with it.

    Lots of things don’t show up in other countries because they lack the size to use enough stuff to demonstrate the defect. Thalidimide was considered safe in Europe; only its use here showed how dangerous it was.

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  22. Devereaux:

    10 Cents:
    I wonder if there is a vaping crisis in other countries or is it just mainly an American problem. I have not heard of Japan having an issue with it.

    Lots of things don’t show up in other countries because they lack the size to use enough stuff to demonstrate the defect. Thalidimide was considered safe in Europe; only its use here showed how dangerous it was.

    Japan has been a tobacco country so there should be enough use to have things show up. The difference might be the US is more in to drugs so they would add things where the Japanese wouldn’t.

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