Let’s Throw Some Gasoline on the Fire, Shall We?

“No one reached out to me and said, ‘as a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?’” Patrick said. “And if that’s the exchange, I’m all in.”

Trump needs to address this ass (Texas Lt. Gov.) for creating more panic. Did this really need to be said? 69 years old is young by today’s modern medical standards and note, those are the ones most invested in the market.

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33 thoughts on “Let’s Throw Some Gasoline on the Fire, Shall We?”

  1. It’s a false dichotomy.  It occurs to me that most of “the elderly” and most of the severely immunocompromised people, those most at risk, are probably not working anyway . Sending all America home from work was…insane.  C’mon Trump, let’s slap people back to their senses!

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  2. We are already a stringently age-graded society.  Look at all those over-55-only “communities”.  Oh yeah I’ve heard about the inter generational homes.  Ok, so take the old people outta there,  offer ‘em a 6 week cruise on one of those now empty liners.

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  3. Hypatia:
    It’s a false dichotomy.  It occurs to me that most of “the elderly” and most of the severely immunocompromised people, those most at risk, are probably not working anyway . Sending all America home from work was…insane.  C’mon Trump, let’s slap people back to their senses!

    Governor Patrick was basically making the point that the possibility of destroying the entire economy may a bit of an overreaction. Also it is not just a blanket of “the elderly” as Hypatia pointed out. Most of the elderly in Italy who are dying are dying from other underlying medical issues. Also many are heavy smokers and are likely immunodeficient. The governor was making the point that perhaps saving the economy is worth the risk.

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  4. Mate De:

    Hypatia:
    It’s a false dichotomy.  It occurs to me that most of “the elderly” and most of the severely immunocompromised people, those most at risk, are probably not working anyway . Sending all America home from work was…insane.  C’mon Trump, let’s slap people back to their senses!

    Governor Patrick was basically making the point that the possibility of destroying the entire economy may a bit of an overreaction. Also it is not just a blanket of “the elderly” as Hypatia pointed out. Most of the elderly in Italy who are dying are dying from other underlying medical issues. Also many are heavy smokers and are likely immunodeficient. The governor was making the point that perhaps saving the economy is worth the risk.

    Agree with your observations MD, but the uninformed electorate isn’t going to get this message. Again, I want to see Ben Carson (don’t care that he’s a neurologist) at the podium with the Don discussing the efforts to provide medical solutions to protect people even if they are 69! Keeping people locked up in their homes will not eliminate this virus.

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  5. Hypatia:

    Haakon Dahl:

    EThompson:
    Keeping people locked up in their homes will not eliminate this virus.

    Has anybody said that it will?

    Um, yeah, they have said exactly that, in fact.  Isn’t that why all America is sitting home?

    I haven’t heard anybody say that.  What I have heard is the eminently reasonable proposition that slowing the initial expansion of this virus through non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) will give precious time in which to develop pharmaceutical treatments and solutions.  It is also delays and mitigates the severity of shortages of “beds” for treating those most affected.  It is for these ends that we are sitting at home.

    When Russia shrewdly traded land for time, they did not imagine that giving up land would defeat the Germans.

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  6. Trump, a short while ago, said he will lift the lockdown by Easter if not before. He is not stupid and realizes that the “cure is worse than the disease”. Trump is getting opposition on this from Cuomo. Trump pointed out how many are dying in US from ordinary flu and from auto collisions. Sure, immune deficient people need to stay isolated as much as possible, but the young and healthy need to get back to work ASAP. Meantime Pelosi should be arrested for treason trying to blackmail all America with imposing GND, diversity/identity/clean energy regs on the relief bill. She is as demented as Joe Biden as well as stupid.

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  7. Haakon Dahl:
    What I have heard is the eminently reasonable proposition that slowing the initial expansion of this virus through non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) will give precious time in which to develop pharmaceutical treatments and solutions.  It is also delays and mitigates the severity of shortages of “beds” for treating those most affected.  It is for these ends that we are sitting at home.

    Again, many people have little or no intuition about the behaviour of exponential growth.  Making a tiny change in the growth factor (the growth in each interval, called R₀ in epidemiology) has an enormous difference in outcome.  Here is a plot of two curves, the top which grows at a rate 1.1 per generation (each generation is 10% larger than the previous), and the bottom (barely distinguishable from the X axis) grows at a rate of 0.9.

    Exponential growth: 1.1^x vs. 0.9^x

    Note that until the 40th generation it is hard to tell these curves apart, and then the freight train starts to careen down the hill and the brakes don’t work.  This is why simple interventions such as ubiquitous mask wearing or reducing the size of gatherings can have an enormous impact on outcomes if they are sufficient to reduce the growth factor, especially below 1, where the disease dies out.

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  8. John Walker:
    This is why simple interventions such as ubiquitous mask wearing or reducing the size of gatherings can have an enormous impact on outcomes if they are sufficient to reduce the growth factor, especially below 1, where the disease dies out.

    Masks are useless because the ones available to the public don’t protect and my source for this is my PCP at Mayo Clinic. Avoiding concerts and baseball games is another thing altogether but my point now is that Congress better stop worrying about unemployment benefits and focus upon funding medical research for a vaccine.

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  9. Haakon Dahl:

    Hypatia:

    Haakon Dahl:

    EThompson:
    Keeping people locked up in their homes will not eliminate this virus.

    Has anybody said that it will?

    Um, yeah, they have said exactly that, in fact.  Isn’t that why all America is sitting home?

    I haven’t heard anybody say that.  What I have heard is the eminently reasonable proposition that slowing the initial expansion of this virus through non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) will give precious time in which to develop pharmaceutical treatments and solutions.  It is also delays and mitigates the severity of shortages of “beds” for treating those most affected.  It is for these ends that we are sitting at home.

    When Russia shrewdly traded land for time, they did not imagine that giving up land would defeat the Germans.

    “15 Days To Stop The Spread!” I dont  think most people heard that in the nuanced way you did.
    But then , “15 Days, Minimum, To, Maybe,  Slow Down The  Spread So We Don’t All Get Sick At Once!”  isn’t very catchy.

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  10. Hypatia:

    Haakon Dahl:

    Hypatia:

    Haakon Dahl:

    EThompson:
    Keeping people locked up in their homes will not eliminate this virus.

    Has anybody said that it will?

    Um, yeah, they have said exactly that, in fact.  Isn’t that why all America is sitting home?

    I haven’t heard anybody say that.  What I have heard is the eminently reasonable proposition that slowing the initial expansion of this virus through non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) will give precious time in which to develop pharmaceutical treatments and solutions.  It is also delays and mitigates the severity of shortages of “beds” for treating those most affected.  It is for these ends that we are sitting at home.

    When Russia shrewdly traded land for time, they did not imagine that giving up land would defeat the Germans.

    “15 Days To Stop The Spread!” I dont  think most people heard that in the nuanced way you did.
    But then , “15 Days, Minimum, To, Maybe,  Slow Down The  Spread So We Don’t All Get Sick At Once!”  isn’t very catchy.

    Well, that’s what we’re doing.  I don’t know what most people heard.  Perhaps this puts the actual strategy in a better light?

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  11. EThompson:

    John Walker:
    This is why simple interventions such as ubiquitous mask wearing or reducing the size of gatherings can have an enormous impact on outcomes if they are sufficient to reduce the growth factor, especially below 1, where the disease dies out.

    Masks are useless because the ones available to the public don’t protect and my source for this is my PCP at Mayo Clinic. Avoiding concerts and baseball games is another thing altogether but my point now is that Congress better stop worrying about unemployment benefits and focus upon funding medical research for a vaccine.

    What masks are really good at is stopping the spread if you have the disease. The doctors have been uniform in expressing this. And since people can have the disease and not know it masks are beneficial. This might be why mask wearing countries are doing better than other countries. They might also know better how to wear them.

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  12. EThompson:

    John Walker:
    This is why simple interventions such as ubiquitous mask wearing or reducing the size of gatherings can have an enormous impact on outcomes if they are sufficient to reduce the growth factor, especially below 1, where the disease dies out.

    Masks are useless because the ones available to the public don’t protect and my source for this is my PCP at Mayo Clinic. Avoiding concerts and baseball games is another thing altogether but my point now is that Congress better stop worrying about unemployment benefits and focus upon funding medical research for a vaccine.

    I looked at Mayo Clinic.  I did not find anything close to “masks are useless.”   What I did find is:

    “Reserve masks for when you are symptomatic and need to be around others at home.”

    Which I am thinking might be in reaction to the shortage of masks.

    I think 10 Cents has a point.  The countries that use masks (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore) are the outliers on the low side of the spread curves.

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  13. Further regarding masks.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/los-angeles-times-and-bloomberg-news-federal-stockpile-of-n95-masks-was-depleted-under-obama-and-never-restocked

    The George W. Bush administration published the National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza plan in 2005, which called on the federal government to distribute medical supplies from the Strategic National Stockpile governed by the Health and Human Services Department in the event of an outbreak.

    In 2009, the H1N1 outbreak hit the United States, leading to 274,304 hospitalizations, 12,469 deaths, and a depletion of N95 respirator masks.

    To curb the pandemic, US is slowly pausing financial time

    A federally backed task force and a safety equipment organization both recommended to the Obama administration that the stockpile be replenished with the 100 million masks used after the H1N1 outbreak.

    Charles Johnson, president of the International Safety Equipment Association, said that advice was never heeded.

    “Our association is unaware of any major effort to restore the stockpile to cover that drawdown,” he said.

    HHS Secretary Alex Azar reported last month that only 12 million N95 masks were available in the stockpile, “a tiny fraction of the 3.5 billion masks one of Azar’s deputies later testified the nation’s healthcare system would need,” the Los Angeles Times noted.

    So, Team W created a national strategic stockpile of 100 million masks.  Team O drew that down to 12 million and never replenished the stockpile.   And you had wondered why we were caught shorthanded.

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  14. MJBubba:
    I looked at Mayo Clinic.  I did not find anything close to “masks are useless.”

    As mentioned, this comment was made during a private conversation with my PCP. He mentioned this was one of reasons the MC is closed for all surgical, non-emergency procedures. Doctors are worried they do not have proper protection and simply refuse to come in to work.

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  15. As I pointed out earlier, even the “useless” masks are effective for protection to a degree:

    “…Catching the virus from a few rogue droplets will likely result in a very different experience than having some rude bastard sneeze right in your face. An implication of this is that even the useless surgical barriers (“masks”) are useful in reducing the sheer amount of pathogen inhaled. A mask which blocks 90 percent of droplets will guarantee that you get the thing, but may very well cause your viral load to grow at a disadvantage relative to your body’s response. It’s an interesting point, and restores much value to the efficacy of admittedly porous measures. When playing a numbers game, it doesn’t suddenly become entirely binary just because the battleground shifts to the body.

    Every reasonable precaution is valuable. So is time. The more precautions taken, and the earlier, the lower the chances of infection, of developing symptoms, and of experiencing this thing the hard way — which can be fatal.”

     

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  16. As to masks, they help you get the disease if you don’t have it because often people can spend more time touching their faces and touching your face is a big nono. They can give a false sense of protection too.

    As with a lot of things they are only useful if used properly.

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  17. 10 Cents:
    As to masks, they help you get the disease if you don’t have it because often people can spend more time touching their faces and touching your face is a big nono. They can give a false sense of protection too.

    I’ve heard government orifices repeating this new received wisdom.  It’s patently nonsense, or else masks would be forbidden.  Coronavirus isn’t special or different in how it sits on a mask.  I know that this comes from official sources, but I’ve tagged it manure, and filed it accordingly.

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  18. Haakon Dahl:

    10 Cents:
    As to masks, they help you get the disease if you don’t have it because often people can spend more time touching their faces and touching your face is a big nono. They can give a false sense of protection too.

    I’ve heard government orifices repeating this new received wisdom.  It’s patently nonsense, or else masks would be forbidden.  Coronavirus isn’t special or different in how it sits on a mask.  I know that this comes from official sources, but I’ve tagged it manure, and filed it accordingly.

    This comes from my own experience of touching my face more because the mask itches. Your mileage may vary.

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  19. Y’all there is a shortage of docs at Mayo Clinic- Jax so because you both seem to have all the answers despite never attending med school, I suggest you apply for a job there. We could use any help we can get.

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  20. EThompson:
    Y’all there is a shortage of docs at Mayo Clinic- Jax so because you both seem to have all the answers despite never attending med school, I suggest you apply for a job there. We could use any help we can get.

    This is classic so I am quoting it.

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  21. 10 Cents:

    EThompson:
    Y’all there is a shortage of docs at Mayo Clinic- Jax so because you both seem to have all the answers despite never attending med school, I suggest you apply for a job there. We could use any help we can get.

    This is classic so I am quoting it.

    Great but pls restrain from your usual habit of cherry picking comments and post my entire remark #18.

    Thank you.

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