something to think about….

Apple and Google are combining to make an app that will automatically be injected into your mobile phone. This is the COVID-19 app. What it will do is monitor your location and proximity to another with a Bluetooth equipped device and if you are close to someone that has or has been close to someone who has COVID-19, You will be flagged!

Read that again, “if you are close to someone that has or has been close to someone who has COVID-19, you will be flagged“….

For 14 days the next time you come close to someone, their cell phone will alarm telling them that you may have COVID-19 !

Then whenever you are out and about, let’s say going through a drive through, the person at the drive through will be alerted that you have been close to someone that had COVID-19, even if you were only close to someone that was close to someone.

Think about this, you are at a red light in your car. Someone in another vehicle, maybe a bus pulls along side of you. The person outside your vehicle and inside another vehicle has or was close to someone with a COVID-19. You have been FLAGGED!

For 14 days the next time you come close to someone, their cell phone will alarm telling them that you may have COVID-19 !

If you came near a NURSE or emergency worker, a cash register clerk, a policemen, if they have been near someone who has or had been near someone with COVID-19, you will be FLAGGED.

For 14 days the next time you come close to someone, their cell phone will alarm telling them that you may have COVID-19 !

Isn’t anyone alarmed by this?

DO NOT ALLOW ANY UPDATES TO YOUR PHONE, unless you like to be flagged…..

To be on the safe side, I will stop carrying my phone.

Now, about the long term effect, just like taxes, they never go away, this APP will never go away. Big Brother, or a “late 1984” .

It won’t be long now….. keep hoping, but Apple is a part of this,  so that’s hoping against hope.

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Author: Gerry_D

I'm from Pensyltucky.

29 thoughts on “something to think about….”

  1. But, Gerry, it will keep every safe! Sometimes, we have to mandate these things because people are too stupid to take protective measures on their own. Think of the children.

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  2. Gerry_D:
    Apple and Google are combining to make an app that will automatically be injected into your mobile phone.

    According to this news report, users must opt-in. Did you read somewhere that it was mandatory, that it  “…will automatically be injected into your mobile phone”?

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  3. Gerry_D:

    drlorentz:
    But, Gerry, it will keep every safe! Sometimes, we have to mandate these things because people are too stupid to take protective measures on their own. Think of the children.

    Take off the blinders Doc, read these: Famous lost words….

    Yes I posted about a mandate here. But this is an invasion of privacy that will not go away. It’s something to track you better. Big Brother.

    My comment was sarcasm, if that wasn’t obvious from “Think of the children.” All mandates have a curious way of not going away. Take off the blinders, Gerry.

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  4. Gerry_D:
    To be on the safe side, I will stop carrying my phone.

    I’ve got some thoughts on this based on working in this field previously.  A couple of questions to focus my response:

    • Do you normally carry your phone with you?
    • Do you use Google or Apple maps, or any other navigation service?

    The tl;dr is probably going to be: “You’re already giving up so much of your privacy that a covid tracker isn’t going to be exposing any data you haven’t already given up.”

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  5. drlorentz:

    Gerry_D:

    drlorentz:
    But, Gerry, it will keep every safe! Sometimes, we have to mandate these things because people are too stupid to take protective measures on their own. Think of the children.

    Take off the blinders Doc, read these: Famous lost words….

    Yes I posted about a mandate here. But this is an invasion of privacy that will not go away. It’s something to track you better. Big Brother.

    My comment was sarcasm, if that wasn’t obvious from “Think of the children.” All mandates have a curious way of not going away. Take off the blinders, Gerry.

    You DON’T normally behave or post in a sarcastic vein. I agree with the fact that “mandates have a curious way of not going away”.

    Bluntly: this crapola of loosing individual choices has me mad and scared. Yes they already have numerous ways to track someone, but not as close as they proposed. As for it being voluntary? I think not. Maybe they say that, but for public safety, that ain’t gonna voluntary for long. Have you ever tried to wade through the if’s, and’s or but’s on Google to get things set up to minimize your online presence? Not easy at all. What is more fearful is the android phone I have and I believe most people have is branded to/with  Google. So they can pretty much do what they want. Try sending a picture from the phone, it will set up a Google photo album and only send a link. Get rid of that album, not easy. The police state is coming, the pandemic is a vehicle to make it happen. If not this pandemic, then the next one or the next crisis will build upon this one and it will be a police state.

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  6. Coming? It’s here!! You couple this with the photos of cops walking around a church parking lot taking down license plate numbers and VINs, the stopping lone paddle boarders in California, and preventing the sale of vegetable seeds for your own personal garden and you have yourself a pretty decent police state already. This is just going to give them the real-time surveillance that they need to make it complete.

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  7. Color me skeptical that (1) you won’t get the covid-tracker unless you voluntarily download it

    (2) that you can opt-out

    (3) that it ever goes away

    I always carry my phone but with blue-tooth, wi-fi and location tracking turned off.   (For whatever good that does.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the OFF button didn’t actually turn off anything )

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  8. Ed K:
    Color me skeptical that (1) you won’t get the covid-tracker unless you voluntarily download it

    (2) that you can opt-out

    (3) that it ever goes away

    I always carry my phone but with blue-tooth, wi-fi and location tracking turned off.   (For whatever good that does.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the OFF button didn’t actually turn off anything )

    These are valid concerns that I share. However, there’s a difference between being skeptical about someone’s intentions versus declaring that the app “will automatically be injected into your mobile phone.” It’s the difference between speculation and fake news.

    I’d add that independent parties are looking into the privacy issues and there is a general awareness and sensitivity to the problem, as detailed in the link I posted above. There’s a huge gulf between that and saying that everyone is certainly going to have this as an intrinsic part of their phone.

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  9. Damocles:

    Gerry_D:
    To be on the safe side, I will stop carrying my phone.

    I’ve got some thoughts on this based on working in this field previously.  A couple of questions to focus my response:

    • Do you normally carry your phone with you?
    • Do you use Google or Apple maps, or any other navigation service?

    The tl;dr is probably going to be: “You’re already giving up so much of your privacy that a covid tracker isn’t going to be exposing any data you haven’t already given up.”

    Yes and no. The addition of Bluetooth proximity tracking would be a significant increase in capability. Another difference is the integration of Apple, Google, and other players. In the past, if you used Apple’s map, Apple was probably not sharing your data with Google* or the government.

    So, yes, lots of privacy has already been lost and no, it’s not just a minor change.

    *Apple and Google are rivals who once were friends. Now they hate each other.

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  10. drlorentz:

    Damocles:

    Gerry_D:
    To be on the safe side, I will stop carrying my phone.

    I’ve got some thoughts on this based on working in this field previously.  A couple of questions to focus my response:

    • Do you normally carry your phone with you?
    • Do you use Google or Apple maps, or any other navigation service?

    The tl;dr is probably going to be: “You’re already giving up so much of your privacy that a covid tracker isn’t going to be exposing any data you haven’t already given up.”

    Yes and no. The addition of Bluetooth proximity tracking would be a significant increase in capability.

    Perhaps I’m having a failure of imagination.  Find My iPhone shows which part of my house the phone is in, down to about a 10 foot radius which is bouncing around.  I think for concerns about location privacy that’s no safer than if it were a 2 foot radius.

    Another difference is the integration of Apple, Google, and other players. In the past, if you used Apple’s map, Apple was probably not sharing your data with Google* or the government.

    As they make clear, they store your location data and will release that to anybody with a proper warrant.  They don’t store encryption keys, and deny they have the ability to decrypt encrypted phone data. (So apparently governments have to go to outside sources to do so!)  Here’s their policy and a report of what data they’ve recently turned over.  Google has a similar page.

    https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests/

    So, yes, lots of privacy has already been lost and no, it’s not just a minor change.

    *Apple and Google are rivals who once were friends. Now they hate each other.

    They’re fierce competitors, but not any real hate.  Employees bounce between the two regularly.  There is probably some sincere hate for Oracle due to the Java claims, though.

    Regarding privacy, when we were young we were taught never to do anything we don’t want Jesus to know about, because he’s in the room with us when we’re doing it.  These days, that same advice applies regarding numerous government agencies and tech companies.

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  11. Damocles:
    Perhaps I’m having a failure of imagination.  Find My iPhone shows which part of my house the phone is in, down to about a 10 foot radius which is bouncing around.  I think for concerns about location privacy that’s no safer than if it were a 2 foot radius.

    I understand all that. Keep in mind that this is all in service of enforcing the restrictions and doing contact tracing, not simply keeping track of where you are. They don’t need a new app for that.

    What you’re missing is that GPS precision is not good enough to determine whether or not people are practicing ‘social distancing.’ Also, GPS precision is often poorer than the several meters you cite. Bluetooth, on the other hand, is specifically short-range. There’s a reason that they’ve included Bluetooth as part of the protocol.

    This cute little ‘explainer’ fleshes out the details. GPS can’t do this job for reasons that should be all too obvious now. Note the little Bluetooth logo in the bottom left panel.

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  12. Damocles:
    As they make clear, they store your location data and will release that to anybody with a proper warrant.

    That is true but there’s a difference between getting a judge to issue a warrant versus Apple and Google and any other randos in their sphere sharing everyone’s data, no warrant or notification required. At least, that’s the way it was presented in the OP:

    Gerry_D:

    Apple and Google are combining to make an app that will automatically be injected into your mobile phone.

    if you are close to someone that has or has been close to someone who has COVID-19, You will be flagged!

    For 14 days the next time you come close to someone, their cell phone will alarm telling them that you may have COVID-19
     !

    I’m not saying all of that is true. That’s just what the OP presented.

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  13. drlorentz:

    A few days later still…

    Bob goes to the pharmacy to refill his prescription for the blood pressure and cardiac arrhythmia medications which have kept him alive for the last 15 years.  Approaching the entrance to the pharmacy, the cloud-connected door, which also enforces social distancing by limiting the number of people in the establishment to no more than one per ten square metres, buzzed and the red “STOP” sign changed to “UNCLEAN”.  Armed People’s Guardians informed Bob that since he had a traceable connection to a possibly positive case, he would not be allowed in proximity to potentially vulnerable people, many of whom frequented the pharmacy.  He was informed that he should use the Home Delivery Facility provided by the State Health Service.

    Arriving home, and glad he still had a week’s medication remaining, he tried to log on to their Web site.  After five attempts, all bounced by time-outs or “failure of server to validate credentials in time”, he finally manages to connect after one in the morning.  Entering the name and address of the pharmacy where his prescription is deposited (there being no option to choose another), he then selects the medications required and proceeds to the “Schedule delivery” page.  This informs him, “All delivery dates are taken” through three weeks from the present, and cheerily suggests, “Please check back to see when new delivery dates become available”.

    A month later, nothing has changed, except Bob’s medications have long run out, and he has difficulty walking up a flight of stairs.

    “Experts” he hears say “It’s important to conserve life-prolonging medications for those most likely to benefit from them.”

    He’s so glad compassion has now triumphed over greed and profit.

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  14. drlorentz:

    Damocles:
    Perhaps I’m having a failure of imagination.  Find My iPhone shows which part of my house the phone is in, down to about a 10 foot radius which is bouncing around.  I think for concerns about location privacy that’s no safer than if it were a 2 foot radius.

    I understand all that. Keep in mind that this is all in service of enforcing the restrictions and doing contact tracing, not simply keeping track of where you are. They don’t need a new app for that.

    Sure.  Just IMHO when the authorities can track your location around the clock, you give up very little additional safety (however that’s defined) by adding inter-phone proximity data.  But I could be missing out on some bad thing which somebody may point out to me.

    In short, my feeling is:

    • There’s no downside to improving the proximity data, since you’re already at 100% downside with the current setup.
    • There’s potential downside to having a database of phone-to-phone contacts, although it seems like only an optimization over the previous bullet point.  The database may record that A was in proximity to B at time T, but that’s something that (computationally more expensive) can be deduced from A’s location history and B’s location history.

    What you’re missing is that GPS precision is not good enough to determine whether or not people are practicing ‘social distancing.’ Also, GPS precision is often poorer than the several meters you cite. Bluetooth, on the other hand, is specifically short-range. There’s a reason that they’ve included Bluetooth as part of the protocol.

    This cute little ‘explainer’ fleshes out the details. GPS can’t do this job for reasons that should be all too obvious now. Note the little Bluetooth logo in the bottom left panel.

    I don’t find that very convincing.  Following the link, Soltani suggests a method where placing a BT monitor and camera in a public place could allow someone to create a photo database of everybody that tested positive, but as Soltani points out, this ability goes away as soon as people stop self-reporting themselves in the app.  While its not impossible, the key rotation scheme they will be using (the Troncoso paper) mitigates this for everyone but the most serious government agencies who can just get a warrent to get the location information (and presumably medical records) directly.

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  15. drlorentz:
    That is true but there’s a difference between getting a judge to issue a warrant versus Apple and Google and any other randos in their sphere sharing everyone’s data, no warrant or notification required. At least, that’s the way it was presented in the OP:

    That makes sense.  Fortunately, they don’t do that.

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  16. John Walker:

    A few days later still…

    […]

    I think a much simpler alternative for the slavers is to make the requirement that your government health card is required to authorize and fill a prescription.  Then they could do everything you mentioned, and even have it tied in to Apple Pay for convenience!

     

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  17. Since we’re in full tinfoil aluminum aluminium hat mode, I made myself an RF shield for my mobile phone. It took a surprising number of layers of foil to attain the desired result, which was to block GPS, WiFi, cellular, and Bluetooth signals. It’s surprising because the skin depth for Al at 1 GHz is less than 3 µm; heavy duty foil is many times thicker than that.

    When in use, the phone must be inserted fully and the flap must be closed tightly. It was tested for WiFi, Bluetooth, and cellular connectivity. Since GPS operates at roughly the same frequency as cellular in the US, that should work as well.

    Duct tape was used to finish the outside and give it that professional look. Since duct tape comes in all the decorator colors, all tastes can be accommodated. I am a Duct Shui Master, so don’t try this at home if you’re not suitably credentialed.

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  18. Damocles:
    don’t find that very convincing.  Following the link, Soltani suggests a method where placing a BT monitor and camera in a public place could allow someone to create a photo database of everybody that tested positive, but as Soltani points out, this ability goes away as soon as people stop self-reporting themselves in the app.  While its not impossible, the key rotation scheme they will be using (the Troncoso paper) mitigates this for everyone but the most serious government agencies who can just get a warrent to get the location information (and presumably medical records) directly.

    Turn off BT. Yes, I know it might not really be off. That’s why you need my patented Phone Stealth pouch Order now, while supplies last. 😉

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  19. Ratburger.org values your privacy and will NEVER surrender your data and private information to a third party. *

    * NEVER is a term that we have a right to define/refine anytime we choose. See we always keep our word!

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  20. drlorentz:

    Damocles:
    don’t find that very convincing.  Following the link, Soltani suggests a method where placing a BT monitor and camera in a public place could allow someone to create a photo database of everybody that tested positive, but as Soltani points out, this ability goes away as soon as people stop self-reporting themselves in the app.  While its not impossible, the key rotation scheme they will be using (the Troncoso paper) mitigates this for everyone but the most serious government agencies who can just get a warrent to get the location information (and presumably medical records) directly.

    Turn off BT. Yes, I know it might not really be off. That’s why you need my patented Phone Stealth pouch Order now, while supplies last. 😉

    Is this a cell phone prophylactic?

    Tech Support:

    “I put my phone in the pouch and dialed a number but my phone doesn’t work. I can’t even connect to the Internet through WiFi. Brand B pouch never had these problems and was cheaper.”

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  21. I forgot to mention that with every purchase of a Phone Stealth™ you’ll get a three month subscription to Ratburger absolutely free. This is a limited time offer so act now.

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  22. 10 Cents:
    “I put my phone in the pouch and dialed a number but my phone doesn’t work. I can’t even connect to the Internet through WiFi. Brand B pouch never had these problems and was cheaper.”

    However, Brand B didn’t come with a totally free subscription to Ratburger.

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