Is Motherhood Bad?

Is fatherhood bad?

Soon it will be Mother’s Day. People love their mothers but society as a whole sees motherhood often in a bad light. It is a second choice or a reluctant option. Motherhood and fatherhood is view as a mistake to the hedonist. But is easily taken care of by them so play can continue as if nothing happened. Large families are often a thing of the past.

I put up a sewing machine post. I didn’t think of it at the time but that drew motherhood lovers out. It bought back fond memories of sacrifices made and love shown in stitches. I looked at a book about an early CEO of Singer, Frederick Bourne. He was one of the riches men in America. He probably needed the money to support his twelve kids with his wife.

What are your thoughts on motherhood?

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48 thoughts on “Is Motherhood Bad?”

  1. 10 Cents:

    10 Cents:

     

    Would you write a separate post about your mother and grandmother with a few stories for Mother’s Day? It doesn’t have to be long.

    You have a lot more faith in my writing ability than I do. I’ll see what I can come up with. 😉

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  2. Blondie:

    10 Cents:

    10 Cents:

     

    Would you write a separate post about your mother and grandmother with a few stories for Mother’s Day? It doesn’t have to be long.

    You have a lot more faith in my writing ability than I do. I’ll see what I can come up with. 😉

    Many a post has started with the disclaimer, “Dime made me do this. “

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  3. Ed K:
    Apparently, according to Michelle Obama, motherhood is the death of your dreams and aspirations.    This from her new documentary:

    “The thing that really changed it was the birth of our children,” she explained. “I wasn’t really ready for that. That really made it harder.”

    “Something had to give and it was my aspirations and dreams,” she said. “I made that concession not because he said ‘you have to quit your job,’ but it felt like ‘I can’t do all of this so I have to tone down my aspirations, I have to dial it back.’”

    I wouldn’t criticize her for this, if she had only added what I hope she felt- that it was the right decision and she was glad to do it.

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  4. Jojo:

    Ed K:
    Apparently, according to Michelle Obama, motherhood is the death of your dreams and aspirations.    This from her new documentary:

    “The thing that really changed it was the birth of our children,” she explained. “I wasn’t really ready for that. That really made it harder.”

    “Something had to give and it was my aspirations and dreams,” she said. “I made that concession not because he said ‘you have to quit your job,’ but it felt like ‘I can’t do all of this so I have to tone down my aspirations, I have to dial it back.’”

    I wouldn’t criticize her for this, if she had only added what I hope she felt- that it was the right decision and she was glad to do it.

    I just think it is terrible for a child to read this. They might feel guilty for robbing their mother of a great life.
    Jojo, you said it better than I can.

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  5. Regarding motherhood, I heard John Stonestreet on Christian talk radio who noted that, in the context of congratulating Anderson Cooper for the new baby he just had with his (now ex-)”husband,” Joyce Carol Oates inquired about the surrogate mother.

    She suffered a tweetstorm of excoriation, for even bringing up the subject, which had been left untouched by all the fawning congratulations that poured in from all the usual Big Media suspects.

    https://www.insider.com/joyce-carol-oates-facing-twitter-backlash-for-surrogacy-comments-2020-5

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  6. MJBubba:
    Regarding motherhood, I heard John Stonestreet on Christian talk radio who noted that, in the context of congratulating Anderson Cooper for the new baby he just had with his (now ex-)”husband,” Joyce Carol Oates inquired about the surrogate mother.

    She suffered a tweetstorm of excoriation, for even bringing up the subject, which had been left untouched by all the fawning congratulations that poured in from all the usual Big Media suspects.

    https://www.insider.com/joyce-carol-oates-facing-twitter-backlash-for-surrogacy-comments-2020-5

    I thought of Anderson Cooper in relation to this post of Dime’s, too. But I didn’t want to get started on it because I am too angry. Anderson Cooper isn’t a father, and he isn’t a man. Real men make a life with the mother of their children. They support and care for and accommodate their children’s mother because they know mothers are important….that’s what makes them fathers. Renting a woman’s womb in the most degrading and dehumanizing contractual arrangement imaginable does not make you a father. It makes you a narcissistic creep.

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  7. Funny that the left sees The Handmaid’s Tale as a story of terrible right wing male tyranny over women, but celebrates the real-life cold blooded use of women’s bodies by gay men as a positive good.

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  8. Jojo:

    The acceptance of surrogacy requires devaluing of motherhood.

    This is all part of the Brave New reproductive World.   The Left is bent on the complete destruction of western civilization, right down to the smallest family unit.

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  9. Only high I.Q. people who are attractive and possess a minimum of mental illness should breed. The goodness or badness of Motherhood and Fatherhood are mostly dependent on DNA.

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  10. 10 Cents:
    #29 2020-05-08 at 23:40 UTC  [Quote] Jojo: Ed K: Apparently, according to Michelle Obama, motherhood is the death of your dreams and aspirations.    This from her new documentary: “The thing that really changed it was the birth of our children,” she explained. “I wasn’t really ready for that. That really made it harder.” “Something had to give and it was my aspirations and dreams,” she said. “I made that concession not because he said ‘you have to quit your job,’ but it felt like ‘I can’t do all of this so I have to tone down my aspirations, I have to dial it back.’” I wouldn’t criticize her for this, if she had only added what I hope she felt- that it was the right decision and she was glad to do it. I just think it is terrible for a child to read this. They might feel guilty for robbing their mother of a great life. Jojo, you said it better than I can.

    Michelle isn’t really gifted enough to do all that much. She is unlikeable with a mediocre academic career. It’s easier for her to blame Motherhood.

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  11. Jojo:

    MJBubba:
    Regarding motherhood, I heard John Stonestreet on Christian talk radio who noted that, in the context of congratulating Anderson Cooper for the new baby he just had with his (now ex-)”husband,” Joyce Carol Oates inquired about the surrogate mother.

    She suffered a tweetstorm of excoriation, for even bringing up the subject, which had been left untouched by all the fawning congratulations that poured in from all the usual Big Media suspects.

    https://www.insider.com/joyce-carol-oates-facing-twitter-backlash-for-surrogacy-comments-2020-5

    I thought of Anderson Cooper in relation to this post of Dime’s, too. But I didn’t want to get started on it because I am too angry. Anderson Cooper isn’t a father, and he isn’t a man. Real men make a life with the mother of their children. They support and care for and accommodate their children’s mother because they know mothers are important….that’s what makes them fathers. Renting a woman’s womb in the most degrading and dehumanizing contractual arrangement imaginable does not make you a father. It makes you a narcissistic creep.

    This Anderson Cooper thing drove me crazy. Him and his buddy Andy Cohen (another gay guy) bought a baby because they want a mini human walking around with their genes. Obviously they didn’t buy it together. But a year or so ago Andy Cohen announced his child, that he bought, and I know he and Cooper are really close friends. Also, The fact that people are celebrating that makes me sick. But this is the commoditization of human beings, and it’s terrifying.

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  12. MJBubba:

    Henry Castaigne:
    Only high I.Q. people who are attractive and possess a minimum of mental illness should breed.

    Eugenics ?

    wow

    I’m not happy about it either. But study after study after study confirm that your human potential is determined 40-60% by our genetics.

    Charles Murray and Nicholas D. Wade cover this fact after fact and in understandable prose.

    I was personally born with terrible genetics. It did me no favors I assure you. Isn’t it more immoral to condemn people to suffer through no fault of their own (presuming of course that reincarnation is either not real or not just)?

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  13. Mate De:
    This Anderson Cooper thing drove me crazy. Him and his buddy Andy Cohen (another gay guy) bought a baby because they want a mini human walking around with their genes. Obviously they didn’t buy it together. But a year or so ago Andy Cohen announced his child, that he bought, and I know he and Cooper are really close friends. Also, The fact that people are celebrating that makes me sick. But this is the commoditization of human beings, and it’s terrifying.

    Isn’t making a baby commoditization? I don’t understand the human impulse to breed as you well know. You mention that Anderson Cooper, “and his buddy Andy Cohen (another gay guy) bought a baby because they want a mini human walking around with their genes.”

    Straights make their own kids for the same reason don’t they. They are obeying their ape-like nature to breed for the most part. I understand that it would be immoral if I bred with a woman without the benefit of genetic engineering or the ability to manipulate development in the womb. But if Anderson Cooper has genes that can produce a healthy happy human, where is the evil in that?

    What exactly do you mean by commoditization? I never understand your references.

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  14. Henry Castaigne:

    I was personally born with terrible genetics. It did me no favors I assure you. Isn’t it more immoral to condemn people to suffer through no fault of their own (presuming of course that reincarnation is either not real or not just)?

    Henry, that sounds like a painful situation  but what makes humanity great is how they overcome adversity. Speaking as an observer here not as much of an adversity-overcomer.

    My children both have challenging medical conditions and both are delights to me, net contributors to the world at large, and enjoy being alive. My son’s is definitely genetic, of unknown origin but highly heritable, and he has the same dilemma you seem to have.

    There’s a difference between an individual hesitating to pass on a debilitating condition, and their being forbidden to procreate. Big difference. Sometimes I think they should just roll the dice, but of course it’s not my decision. Rolling the dice would be to put their faith in God and       in the value of all human life. It would be to acknowledge  life cannot be completely under one’s control and submit to the limitations and amazing potential of our “ape nature” as you like to say.

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  15. Jojo:
    There’s a difference between an individual hesitating to pass on a debilitating condition, and their being forbidden to procreate. Big difference. Sometimes I think they should just roll the dice, but of course it’s not my decision.

    But you want homosexuals to be forbidden to create? Or do you do the Christian libertarian thing were you both disapprove of and allow most everything? You brought up forbidding stuff, not I. (I never bring up forbidding stuff but everyone assumes I do when I argue that we have a responsibility to consider genetics.)

    There is a pretty good argument that because both mother’s and father’s are so important to a child’s development that homosexuals should not procreate and only adopt from the multitudes of heterosexuals who breed foolishly. Ideally, there would be enough responsible husband and wife couples to adopt these kids before homosexual couples but I think that is overly optimistic.

    As for the whole overcoming adversity makes humanity great line, many people don’t overcome it. People like to point out to Stephen Hawking and Charles Krauthammer as examples. Both were gifted with an I.Q. the size of Mount Everest. They were genetically amazing specimens of humanity who could use their incredible abilities to adapt to difficult circumstances. If they had an I.Q. of 95. No one would no their names.

    But that is a digression, what is the morality of breeding? I think it would be more immoral for me to breed than a homosexual but homosexuals breeding doesn’t bother me that much because the real problem is heterosexuals breeding stupidly.

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  16. Henry Castaigne

     You brought up forbidding stuff, not I. (I never bring up forbidding stuff but everyone assumes I do when I argue that we have a responsibility to consider genetics.)

    I misunderstood you. When you said only mentally healthy high IQ people should breed I thought you meant others should be forbidden to breed. If you meant you think dumb people and mentally unhealthy people should choose of their own volition not to breed that’s something else. Feel free to persuade them.

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  17. Jojo:

    Henry Castaigne

     You brought up forbidding stuff, not I. (I never bring up forbidding stuff but everyone assumes I do when I argue that we have a responsibility to consider genetics.)

    I misunderstood you. When you said only mentally healthy high IQ people should breed I thought you meant others should be forbidden to breed. If you meant you think dumb people and mentally unhealthy people should choose of their own volition not to breed that’s something else. Feel free to persuade them.

    That’s what sex robots are for.

    Here is a minute clip that is deeply relevant to our discussion.

    https://youtu.be/vAtoWrsffnk?t=17

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  18. Henry Castaigne:

    Mate De:
    This Anderson Cooper thing drove me crazy. Him and his buddy Andy Cohen (another gay guy) bought a baby because they want a mini human walking around with their genes. Obviously they didn’t buy it together. But a year or so ago Andy Cohen announced his child, that he bought, and I know he and Cooper are really close friends. Also, The fact that people are celebrating that makes me sick. But this is the commoditization of human beings, and it’s terrifying.

    Isn’t making a baby commoditization? I don’t understand the human impulse to breed as you well know. You mention that Anderson Cooper, “and his buddy Andy Cohen (another gay guy) bought a baby because they want a mini human walking around with their genes.”

    Straights make their own kids for the same reason don’t they. They are obeying their ape-like nature to breed for the most part. I understand that it would be immoral if I bred with a woman without the benefit of genetic engineering or the ability to manipulate development in the womb. But if Anderson Cooper has genes that can produce a healthy happy human, where is the evil in that?

    What exactly do you mean by commoditization? I never understand your references.

    Anderson Cooper, combined his DNA with a donated egg of some women ( we don’t know but he may know her) and made a baby. So now this baby has been born into extreme wealth BUT has no relationship with his mother. The child is born with a deficit of one parent, and let’s be real, Cooper will not raise this child. He will outsource the child rearing to a nanny. I’m a crazy person in this world apparently, that I believe that all children have a right to both their parents. Obviously extenuating circumstances are what they are when children are convinced naturally. We make accommodations and usually everyone has to pay a pretty steep price for the mishap. This child was not conceived naturally. This was a planned out and with foreknowledge that the child would be motherless. THAT is terrible. Adults can make whatever decisions about their sex lives that they want and those adults should be the ones who deal with the consequences. Not children!! Anderson cooper is a selfish narcissist and I pray for the child that he bought so that he could have some genetic legacy.

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  19. Henry Castaigne:

    But you want homosexuals to be forbidden to create?

    No, they just shouldn’t demean women and deprive children of their mothers by buying babies. Surrogacy is baby selling, heterosexuals shouldn’t do it either, it should be illegal.

    Homosexuals should marry the mother or father of their child and raise the child together. I don’t favor prioritizing sexual choice or raising the average IQ over conserving the natural family standard.

    Generally well meaning programs to help children of single mothers have badly undermined the natural family standard and probably the IQ pool as well. In the 1950s even dumb women did not usually have children without being married to a man who appeared smart and stable enough to support them.

    I don’t know about the sex doll solution, except maybe for Anderson Cooper. (Joke.)(mostly)

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  20. Jojo:
    Surrogacy is baby selling, heterosexuals shouldn’t do it either, it should be illegal.

    This is the answer to Henry C.’s question about “commodification.”  It is treating the desire for a baby as similar to the desire for any commodity.

    At the root of the differences of opinion is Jojo’s Christian attitude towards human life.  God is the Author of Life, and His rules and principles regarding life ought to be heeded.  Both out of reverence for God, and also because that is what produces robust and content people and reduces strife.

    We are speaking about cases at the margins, however, and sometimes life gets messy.

    For example, in Jojo’s cited case about how a baby needs its mother, well, sometimes the mother dies.  In this tragic circumstance we have a variety of coping mechanisms from ancient times.  One of those ancient remedies was to sell or give the baby away.   This is always a sub-optimum solution, and our literature is stuffed full of heartbreaking tales of orphans and the scrapes they endured.

    Jojo is just pointing out that, in the Anderson Cooper situation, the new baby was arranged/purchased in a way that deliberately set him out with no relationship to his mother.

    In this case, I actually think the child benefits from A. Cooper’s “divorce,” so that now the child is being raised by his father and not by “two daddies.”   But that, of course, depends entirely on future life choices that A. Cooper may make.

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  21. The project to erase fathers started decades ago, during which conservatives have been arguing that fathers matter and liberals have been arguing that sexual freedom matters and women can raise a family without a father( or with only shall we say a minuscule contribution from the father who is then excised from the family.)

    The project to erase mothers had to wait for the redefinition of marriage so that two men could present a simulacrum of parenthood. Before that, seems even flaming liberals wouldn’t be caught celebrating a man hiring a woman to bear him a child and go away. Even liberal moral consciences had to gag on that.  But with gay marriage it could be presented as the way two men could live out their love and make a family. Now conservatives have to argue that mothers matter, while liberals argue that sexual freedom matters  and men can raise a family without a mother (or with only a transient contribution from the mother who is then excised from the family.)

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