Looming Crisis in the Church of Rome

Rather than send my own post careening into a new topic, I brought a comment here in order to respond:

T. W.:

drlor.:

M. D:
You can always count on the Bishops to cave to the politically correct mob (Not all, but most of them).

Then what good are they?

They have the same value as the GOP has for conservative citizens.  Accordingly, the same solution applies: citizen-level revolt.  Vote out the political hacks in the GOP, and become indignantly vocal in your church, elevating the issues through informed dissent.  Confront the infidels directly.

Which is one of the chief problems with the Church of Rome.  The Catholic Church has a top-down structure with no mechanism in place for bottom-up correction.  Bishops are selected from the ranks of the priests by Archbishops and Cardinals making recommendation lists for the Pope, and then the Pope picking from the list in consultation with the Magisterium in the Vatican.

It may be that something good will happen before the looming calamity, but I don’t see it.   The next Pope is going to be a more aggressive Leftist than Francis.  This is assured because over half of the voting Cardinals are now Francis’s appointees.  If so, then expect the next pope to select more openly apostate priests to elevate into bishoprics, and elevate the most ardent anti-Christian bishops into seats as cardinals.

The Church of Rome has no way to forestall this.  Everyone can see it coming, but structurally the Catholic Church has no process by which faithful lay persons can halt or even slow down the race to the Left.  It does no good for laypersons to “become indignantly vocal.”

A group of laymen can petition their bishop.  If their bishop does not want to listen, their only recourse is to go over his head to seek out a Visitation, which is usually an adjutant bishop sent in to investigate the situation.  Since the investigator gets selected by the Vatican, the fox is guarding the henhouse, and the cop on the beat is a weasel in cahoots with the fox.   Unless the problem is garden-variety corruption such as mishandling funds, it is rare for a Visitation to grant a good outcome to a lay petition.  Do not expect any correction for even outright heretical statements by a bishop.  The Visitor will simply help the bishop to re-state his heretical stance using language that is suitably vague so as to obscure what is being said.

The decline of the Church of Rome has broad implications globally, and probably indicates the complete collapse of western civilization.

Catholic Ratburghers, is there any way to prevent disaster ?

Yes; this Lutheran is praying for the Church of Rome.

Lord, have Mercy.

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18 thoughts on “Looming Crisis in the Church of Rome”

  1. Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    Have faith, MJ Bubba. God is in charge, and we can’t predict the future. If 6 months into the future MJBubba, went to yourself back in January and explained what has been going on since March. You might have thought that, 6 months in the future you, was crazy (aside from the fact that you could time travel, but also pretty lame to only travel back 6 months)

    It’s like the story in Matthew of Jesus asleep in the boat, when the storm came and was tossing the boat around and all the apostles were freaking out. Then finally Jesus woke up and calmed the storm and what did he say “O ye of little faith.”.

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  2. Bryan G. Stephens:
    What reformed the Church 500 years ago was the Reformation.

    I fear it is time for that again.

    Catholic laypersons have all sorts of choices now, if they decide they finally cannot continue in fellowship with the Pope.  (That is one enduring consequence of the Reformation.)

    That is the sticking point.  Catholics are trained from the cradle that you have to be in fellowship with the Pope in order to be a follower of Jesus.

    They have had previous popes who arguably were not Christian.  But this Pope is actively advancing the march of the Left through the institution of the Church.  This time it is different, and in a critical time.

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  3. Mate De:
    Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    Have faith, MJ Bubba. God is in charge, and we can’t predict the future. If 6 months into the future MJBubba, went to yourself back in January and explained what has been going on since March. You might have thought that, 6 months in the future you, was crazy (aside from the fact that you could time travel, but also pretty lame to only travel back 6 months)

    It’s like the story in Matthew of Jesus asleep in the boat, when the storm came and was tossing the boat around and all the apostles were freaking out. Then finally Jesus woke up and calmed the storm and what did he say “O ye of little faith.”.

    But the Catholic church has already gone through very evil times in the past. It took the Reformation to shake it up. The Catholic church is corrupt at its core. It promotes internal homosexuality, and continues to engage in cover ups for gay predators. It has used tithed money to pay of victims it would not protect and will not protect.

    God destroyed Israel for turning away from Him. He will destroy America too.

    Maybe He won’t destroy the Catholic church, but I do not look to it for any spiritual guidance with a man who clearly does not believe its teachings in charge.

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  4. Mate De:
    Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: Thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

    Have faith, MJ Bubba. God is in charge, and we can’t predict the future. If 6 months into the future MJBubba, went to yourself back in January and explained what has been going on since March. You might have thought that, 6 months in the future you, was crazy (aside from the fact that you could time travel, but also pretty lame to only travel back 6 months)

    It’s like the story in Matthew of Jesus asleep in the boat, when the storm came and was tossing the boat around and all the apostles were freaking out. Then finally Jesus woke up and calmed the storm and what did he say “O ye of little faith.”.

    Oh, faith is secure.  There is eternal hope in the Resurrection.  In the end, Jesus offers salvation to weary souls.

    But that does not mean that the way won’t be painful.  What I think looks like the unavoidable future is one in which Christians once again seek refuge in basement catacombs, passing messages in furtive notes and trying to avoid being forced to witness to the Faith via martyrdom.

    Without a strong Catholic Church, dark days loom even closer than they appeared just a couple of years ago.

    Jesus’s church is a growing church, and it will continue to grow.  But I would prefer church growth via more Evangelism, and less church growth via the blood of the martyrs.

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  5. MJBubba:
    Bishops are selected from the ranks of the priests by Archbishops and Cardinals making recommendation lists for the Pope, and then the Pope picking from the list in consultation with the Magisterium in the Vatican.

    (Emphasis mine): shouldn’t this be the Curia (or Roman Curia)?  The Magisterium is the concept of the church’s authority to interpret scripture, while the Curia is the governing body (literally, from the Latin, “court”, as of a king) of a part of the Roman Catholic church.  It is the ability of a Pope to pack the Roman Curia with his own allies that allows him to influence church policy after his departure.  The Roman Curia is the Deep State of the Vatican.

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  6. John Walker:

    MJBubba:
    Bishops are selected from the ranks of the priests by Archbishops and Cardinals making recommendation lists for the Pope, and then the Pope picking from the list in consultation with the Magisterium in the Vatican.

    (Emphasis mine): shouldn’t this be the Curia (or Roman Curia)?  The Magisterium is the concept of the church’s authority to interpret scripture, while the Curia is the governing body (literally, from the Latin, “court”, as of a king) of a part of the Roman Catholic church.  It is the ability of a Pope to pack the Roman Curia with his own allies that allows him to influence church policy after his departure.  The Roman Curia is the Deep State of the Vatican.

    Well, yeah, but more people are familiar with the term “Magisterium” than the term “Curia.”   I said “Magisterium in the Vatican” as a way to refer to the subset of the Magisterium that inhabits the Vatican.  Those guys seem to do everything a group, including the lesser functionaries that make up the Curia.   There are members of the Magisterium who do not reside in Rome, but they generally only comment on candidates under their own jurisdiction.

    And, of course, some of the maneuverings within the Curia are really opaque even to Catholic insiders, so sometimes it is hard to tell who is on first.

    When Benedict XVI first became Pope, he expressed surprise at how difficult it was to get the Curia to act on some of his proposals.  So, even after 26 years of John Paul II as Pope, the Curia had not been completely made over in accord with John Paul II’s viewpoint.  But after only 7 years of Francis, it appears that Francis now has a Curia that is immersed in his viewpoint.  Which tells us that the Left has had a very strong presence in the Vatican for over forty years; so strong that the papacies of John Paul II and Benedict XVI were not enough to correct the Leftward course.

    There is no way that the next pope after Francis is going to be a theological conservative.  It looks like a tough situation to me.

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  7. MJBubba:

    Bryan G. Stephens:
    What reformed the Church 500 years ago was the Reformation.

    I fear it is time for that again.

    Catholic laypersons have all sorts of choices now, if they decide they finally cannot continue in fellowship with the Pope.  (That is one enduring consequence of the Reformation.)

    That is the sticking point.  Catholics are trained from the cradle that you have to be in fellowship with the Pope in order to be a follower of Jesus.

    They have had previous popes who arguably were not Christian.  But this Pope is actively advancing the march of the Left through the institution of the Church.  This time it is different, and in a critical time.

    This Catholic Converted when he was 31 years old and, while I love the Church as it is the only denomination that has a legitimate claim to be directly descended from Jesus through Peter, I also find comfort in knowing that acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is all that is needed to be granted a place in Heaven. Put not your faith in Popes and Bishops, and trust in Christ Jesus.

    John 14:6

    “Lord,” said Thomas, “we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?” 6Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”

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  8. MJ, I’m embarrassed to say I really don’t know as much about my own Church’s inner machinations as you have studied, but I’ll mention this – only in the last 2 or 3 years, the two very traditional priests in my parish began asking everyone to kneel after Mass is ended and recite the prayer to St. Michael. “Saint Michael Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.” This was never a regular coda to our Masses before, but everyone solemnly prays it now. I take its adoption as a signal of veritable danger.

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  9. Pencilvania:
    MJ, I’m embarrassed to say I really don’t know as much about my own Church’s inner machinations as you have studied, but I’ll mention this – only in the last 2 or 3 years, the two very traditional priests in my parish began asking everyone to kneel after Mass is ended and recite the prayer to St. Michael. “Saint Michael Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.” This was never a regular coda to our Masses before, but everyone solemnly prays it now. I take its adoption as a signal of veritable danger.

    We say it in my diocese as well. But I see it as a sign of hope. The St Michael’s prayer was written by Pope Leo XIII. You can read about the origins of the prayer. That prayer is supposed to a mini Exorcism, which used to be one of the minor orders of the church. I think bringing back the St Michael’s prayer is a real sign of hope because we are engaged in a spiritual battle and we need all holy weapons to combat it as possible. This is why we are called the Church Militant. Embrace it and see it as one more weapon for your spiritual arsenal.

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  10. I do see the prayer as hopeful and proactive, MateDe, and comforting in that a danger is not ignored; but neither of our traditional-minded priests had started leading us in it till the last few years, and our pastor and the priests we sometimes have as substitutes do not insert the prayer, so I assume it’s not a diocesan-wide directive. I remember being taken up short the first time Fr. McHale directed everyone to kneel, when we were otherwise ready to sing the recessional (which was a good thing – made everyone pay attention!) I have just felt every time we pray it that our shepherds are seeing new evils that demand our attention and strength.

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  11. Pencilvania:
    I do see the prayer as hopeful and proactive, MateDe, and comforting in that a danger is not ignored; but neither of our traditional-minded priests had started leading us in it till the last few years, and our pastor and the priests we sometimes have as substitutes do not insert the prayer, so I assume it’s not a diocesan-wide directive. I remember being taken up short the first time Fr. McHale directed everyone to kneel, when we were otherwise ready to sing the recessional (which was a good thing – made everyone pay attention!) I have just felt every time we pray it that our shepherds are seeing new evils that demand our attention and strength.

    St. Michael Archangel is outta favor with the Wokerati.  .  His image  is on the highest Medal of Honor the Brits can bestow.  But uh-oh: he has his knee, or at least his ankle, on Satan’s neck! just like Chauvin!    So it’s clearly a desecration of George Floyd’s memory.  I wonder if the monarchy will cave on it?

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  12. Of the first 31 popes, 28 were “martyrs.”  Pope John XII, 955-964, was  murdered “whilst indulging in an adulterous affair,” by her husband.  Gimme that old time religion.

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  13. Uncle Al:
    Of the first 31 popes, 28 were “martyrs.”  Pope John XII, 955-964, was  murdered “whilst indulging in an adulterous affair,” by her husband.  Gimme that old time religion.

    Yuh.  Have you read Gary Willis’ Papal Sin ?  ‘Scuse me while I don’t  shed  any tears.

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